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XavierXante
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Re: Ranged Unit Accuracy in aoe3

Wed Jan 31, 2018 7:53 pm

mandosrex wrote: I shouldn't be here, but, this is a subject important to me. So AoE2 ranged units actually have a chance to miss standing targets, alright, didn't know that for sure.
But AoE2 also has something else very, very important, and that is ranged projectiles being able to miss moving targets (projectile lagging?), something that is not possible in AoE3. I tried and nothing. Projectiles are just too fast anyway.
And personally, I absolutely love this AoE2 feature. It indirectly nerfs ranged units and it gives an amazing advantage to skilled players with good micro.

As for making ranged units randomly miss, I disagree with this. This doesn't add diversity and variety... It only makes ranged units less reliable and less competitive (you won't see this is a game like SC2 for example, the most competitive RTS out there).
The less randomization a game has, the more competitive it is. I would personally make all projectiles have 100% accuracy and use the AoE2 system of missing moving targets.

(If by some amazing reason I am wrong and you can make units miss moving targets in AoE3, then please, do tell)
I apologise for the late reply. Well, in aoe2 'projectile lagging' for all ranged units occurs before ballistics is researched. Before ballistics is researched, the accuracy stats in the image shown are valid only for static targets (static target accuracy). For moving targets, without ballistics researched, the accuracy (moving target accuracy) is horrible. 

"Without Ballistics researched, all ranged units will miss a shot at any unit that is not standing still or moving directly towards them, because they always fire at the spot where the targeted unit is at the moment of the shot. Naturally, if that unit is moving, they will miss the shot." (source: from aoe2 wiki)

After ballistics is researched, well, the accuracy stats shown in the image will be same for both moving and static targets. That means, ballistics makes 'moving target accuracy' same as 'static target accuracy'.

Ballistics effects Archers, towers (including bombard tower), castles, ships and towncenters.

However, trebuchets and cannon galleons (except Spanish) are not influenced by ballistics. Hence, you can dodge those shots quite easily. But, manually dodging ranged units shots/mangonel/scorpion shots is almost impossible, even in aoe2.

But the probability of missing targets still exists in aoe2, even after ballistics is researched. Else, Janissary would be OP!

However, this probability of missing targets doesn't exist at all in aoe3, except for fixed gun (shown in the image) or warhut's anti ship attack.
So adding accuracy stat for ranged units will improve the diversity of the game, in my opinion.
[attachment=0]accuracy.jpg[/attachment]

P.S: I have a question though.

 Suppose if we add a line like this, for each and every ranged unit,

<Accuracy>0.800000</Accuracy>

 will the projectile miss or will it still follow the target and hit it?

UPDATE: Don't bother with the last question. That accuracy line doesn't effect accuracy of unit at all. I tested it by putting accuracy as 0.01. Still, it hits the target quite nicely ;( 

As, mentioned by AlistairJah, accuracy is random
Attachments
accuracy.jpg
 
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wyteraven
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Re: Ranged Unit Accuracy in aoe3

Fri Feb 02, 2018 5:53 am

XavierXante wrote:  Suppose if we add a line like this, for each and every ranged unit,

<Accuracy>0.800000</Accuracy>

 will the projectile miss or will it still follow the target and hit it?

UPDATE: Don't bother with the last question. That accuracy line doesn't effect accuracy of unit at all. I tested it by putting accuracy as 0.01. Still, it hits the target quite nicely ;( 

As, mentioned by AlistairJah, accuracy is random
I have done some testing on accuracy. It works but there are some tricks there. In tactics file (let us say for a musketeer) there is this tag (below) that make the projectile instantly hit the target:
<instantballistics>1</instantballistics>
You must remove this line for accuracy to work.

I found that in artillery/cannons there is another tag that prevents accuracy from working and that is:
<targetground>1</targetground>
 
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XavierXante
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Re: Ranged Unit Accuracy in aoe3

Fri Feb 02, 2018 1:26 pm

Thanks wyteraven.

By the way, are those inputs binary or fractional? I mean, for 'instantballistics', is the input just 0 or 1 OR any value between 0 to 1?
 
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wyteraven
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Re: Ranged Unit Accuracy in aoe3

Fri Feb 02, 2018 7:04 pm

Both tags are binary (yes or no). But I found that cannons won't work properly without <targetground>1</targetground>.
 
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ChronoJJ
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Re: Ranged Unit Accuracy in aoe3

Thu Feb 15, 2018 8:54 am

It's a good topic of discussion... ranged units. I've played all the Age of games for many years, and played AoM and AoE3 at an expert level (AoC I was decent but not great). Of all ranged systems, I feel that AoE3 was the worst, AoM the best, AoC pretty decent but a little odd. I was always really bothered by AoE3 ranged units never missing; that concept really took a lot of micro out of fights. I just never got into Age3 much because of that; most battles are just ranged vs ranged, followed by more ranged vs ranged. Perhaps that was intentional thematically, since yeah, by Age 3 timeline, melee units were becoming obsolete. But for game mechanics, I hated it.

Age of Mythology used two different ranged mechanics. Each unit had a basic accuracy, which followed a mystical formula (no one ever figured it out exactly). Essentially, the farther away a ranged unit is from its target, the less accurate it is. Point blank? Hit almost 100% of time. Max range? First shot is probably around 60-70%. However, as the ranged unit continues to fire at the same unit, without moving, it becomes more accurate - basically 100% accurate with the 3rd shot. Additionally, the game determines whether or not the missile hits as soon as its fired. No unit gimmicks (AoC, see later) can cause the arrow to miss, outside of garrisoning.

A second aspect of ranged unit accuracy in AoM is tracking. For example, an archer has a tracking of 5. If it shoots at any target moving faster than 5 speed, it will never hit that target. The arrow could hit a unit moving behind the target (units in formation); if it does, then the arrow does much less damage (think it's around 30%). No Ballistics in AoM. This allows for kiting cavalry in battles; moving the cavalry unit the archers aim at results in the archers never hitting the unit. It then becomes a bit of a mind-game, trying to guess what unit the enemy will re-target, moving that one so that the enemy archers miss again. This can be done with slower units this as well. Sure, they can't dodge arrow fire, but if the target moves, causing the enemy archers to move, then their accuracy gets reset (they're back to shot #1, whereas if they were at shot #3, they'd at 100% accuracy).

For AoC, the system works quite a bit differently (there's also a little bit of bad/wrong info posted earlier). AoC units have an accuracy percent, so they are never quite 100% accurate, even against targets standing still. Their accuracy is very, very high, though. Gunpowder units have worse accuracy (part of their balancing). However, it's not true that units cannot hit moving targets prior to ballistics. It just depends on the speed and range of the target. Slow moving units can still get whacked by arrows. Additionally, arrows do the same amount of damage if they hit the wrong target (unit following behind). Also, different than AoM, the game does not determine whether or not the arrow hits until it lands. Thus, dodging becomes a huge part of the game.

Most experts use formations to dodge. There's a formation that causes a group of units to split into two (essentially a flanking formation). This causes the units to move slightly faster than normal, as they spread away from the empty 'middle' of the new formation. Thus, players with decent micro use a ton of formation gimmicks, basically timing the formation change as soon as the enemy archers fire, then moving back as soon as the enemy fires again. Properly done, the arrows never hit the units. This works for units with ballistics as well. Ballistics is a great tech, it basically gives archers (non gunpowder) perfect tracking. But remember, the game doesn't guarantee a hit until the arrow actually hits. So if a group of units are moving, then enemy archers fire, then the targets stop moving/change direction/use the above formation trick, then none of the arrows will hit, because the arrows anticipated the wrong movement.
(btw, mangonels don't get affected by ballstics. I don't think scorpions do either)
Also, while gunpowder units' accuracy sucks, remember there is no penalty if the bullet strikes the wrong unit. So a wave of hand cannoneers against a wave of enemy units will basically have 100% hit.

I feel that the AoM system works better than AoC because it's just makes a bit more intuitive. AoC is a bit more gimmicky; moreso manipulating formations and movement.

AoE3 of course, has none of this. Ranged units hit 100% of the time. Thus we get a game dominated by ranged units. Now I know that melee cavalry/infantry can work at times and they have a place in the game, but to me their role is too minor, and battles don't reward micro. Battle micro in AoE3 is moreso generic unit positioning (tactical maneuvers). While yes, that is a skill too (don't let your ranged get flanked), it's a lesser skill than actual unit micro. Additionally, AoC/AoM has unit positioning along with the additional kiting/ranged units mechanics. So AoE3 basically removed a portion of battle micro.

Does AoE3 suck? No, I played it quite a bit back in the day and enjoy it. I'm not here to bash it, I just think the ranged unit system was disappointing. Should it be changed, if possible. Well maybe, but then the whole unit system will have to be balanced - the units were balanced around it. Same as for AoC/AoM, units were balanced around the ranged system. If archers had 100% accuracy in those games, they'd be crazy OP.
 
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Steve9000v2
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Re: Ranged Unit Accuracy in aoe3

Fri Jul 13, 2018 3:50 pm

 Guys!!! Today, I have found something about this!
The units's accuracy in ''Hundred Days'' mod is what we need.
Although I haven't test the artillery and cavalry, the infantry and villager seemed to be worked perfectly what we need.

I will include some files incase you want to check it out.
Sorry for making a 5 months old topic live again  ;)
Attachments
data.rar
(9.26 MiB) Not downloaded yet
 
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AlistairJah
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Re: Ranged Unit Accuracy in aoe3

Fri Jul 13, 2018 4:15 pm

They still miss stationary units within less than 5 meters though...
Mis band dondrna b at fa so gaga oe ts maay angle lery
 
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Steve9000v2
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Re: Ranged Unit Accuracy in aoe3

Sat Jul 14, 2018 7:46 am

 Though at least it can be edited so thing would work well. 

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