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XavierXante
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Issues with Aztecs in late game - Some solutions

Sat Dec 09, 2017 10:08 pm

I know that Aztecs are vicious in first 10-15 min and you should not go late game with them, you usually don't go late game with them

However. they have really good late game gathering bonuses (except wood) and 10 war priests + 15 villagers on fire pit with attack dance gives +40% attack, which is quite a sweet deal. So I thought why not try a late game?

But the thing is, they suck at late game, I mean after their first 350+ pop surge. It is because of the fact that they have almost all slow and weaker melee units in a game dominated by strong ranged units. 

These are some main issues I have found with Aztecs in late game.

Problem 1: Coyote runner, their only counter to massed skirmishers and artillery, costs wood and are weak in late game.

Compare coyote runner with Cossack.
Aztecs Table.jpg
Even a full upgraded Coyote runner gets only around 39 attack and 350 HP and with fire pit attack dance they get around 56 attack. 
 
This is way too low for 0.1 ranged armour. And that too they cost wood, which is a big no in the late game. That is why they easily fall to massed artillery. 
 
Possible Solution: Make Coyote runner stats closer to Cossack (but slightly lesser). Increase their cost (Ex: 95F 45G) to balance this, but make them cost food and gold, not wood. Aztecs already have two cost effective units, viz. Macehualtin and Puma spearmen. They don’t need three.
 
Problem 2: Jaguar knights get easily beaten by ranged HI like Musketeers/Dorobants/Rifle Men etc. when they are supposed to be good vs. them, as they (jaguar knights) are slow.
 
This is because they have only 4.5 speed which is not sufficient to cover the range. And the only way to use them and win is to put them in stealth mode, which again is not plausible in high level games.
 
Also units in stealth mode are 50% slower, which makes it useless.
 
Possible Solution: Instead of 50%, reduce the speed penalty in stealth mode for all units to 20% or 30%. This makes stealth mode usable not only for Aztecs, but for all civilisations. 
 
For example if a unit speed Is 5, its speed should be 4 or 3.5 in stealth mode, not 2.5. 
 
Increase the speed of Jaguar knights to 5.5. Increase their cost by 15% to balance this.
 
Problem 3: Arrow knights resist ranged damage, which again is useless as we use them only against artillery. That is why they easily fall to massed artillery when they are supposed to counter them.
 
Possible Solution: Put 0.4 siege armour (I mean siege damage resist) instead of ranged armour. Increase their range to 32, so that they can match Iroquois light cannons. Increase their cost by 20% to balance this.

Please comment and don't hesitate to point out errors.
Last edited by XavierXante on Sat Dec 09, 2017 10:29 pm, edited 5 times in total.
 
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Septafolia
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Re: Issues with Aztecs in late game - Some solutions

Sat Dec 09, 2017 10:18 pm

XavierXante wrote:
Sat Dec 09, 2017 10:08 pm
I know that Aztecs are vicious in first 10-15 min and you should not go late game with them

You already answered your own concern.
Image
 
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XavierXante
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Re: Issues with Aztecs in late game - Some solutions

Sat Dec 09, 2017 10:21 pm

Septafolia wrote:
XavierXante wrote: I know that Aztecs are vicious in first 10-15 min and you should not go late game with them

You already answered your own concern.
I know, but they have really good late game bonuses, but crappy late game units which seems illogical.
More importantly, Aztecs are too easy to beat, when you reach age 3. Massed skirms and artillery is all it takes to beat them. And they have no answer to Urumi.
 
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Hoop Thrower
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Re: Issues with Aztecs in late game - Some solutions

Sun Dec 10, 2017 1:31 am

Are you talking about vanilla game?
 
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Circle of Ossus
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Re: Issues with Aztecs in late game - Some solutions

Sun Dec 10, 2017 9:13 am

You have exactly pointed out why I never go with the Aztecs (my favorite of the North Americans). I once tried to do a fully upgraded Coyote Runner (with HC cards). It sucked.
However, the Aztecs themselves will get replaced, so maybe the team has already solved this issue?
<a href="viewtopic.php?f=8&t=768&p=6612#p6612" class="postlink" >Swiss UA Proposal</a>
 
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XavierXante
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Re: Issues with Aztecs in late game - Some solutions

Mon Dec 11, 2017 9:35 am

Hoop Thrower wrote: Are you talking about vanilla game?
No. I'm not talking about Aztecs natives in vanilla game that appear in trading posts. I'm talking about Aztecs civilisation (like Iroquois/Sioux) that has not changed that much.

But it is an excellent decision by the wars of liberty team, to increase the siege attack of Sioux units. Aztecs and Iroquois have long range siege unit, arrow knight and Light cannon respectively. But the only choice with sioux is to attack melee.
You have exactly pointed out why I never go with the Aztecs (my favorite of the North Americans). I once tried to do a fully upgraded Coyote Runner (with HC cards). It sucked.

However, the Aztecs themselves will get replaced, so maybe the team has already solved this issue?
Really, that's a news!

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