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PepePeyote
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Jesuit Priest
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Serbia's OP unit death aura

Tue Nov 21, 2017 5:17 am

I believe the damage and hitpoint aura of the Serbs needs to be nerfed. I have played a bunch of games in which Serbia has proven to be quite OP when it comes to fighting, and the sole reason for that is it's bonus, which I may add, is unlimited.
Meaning if players are fighting in a bottleneck, the Serbian player will get the advantage regardless of the enemy's unit combinations. I've tested this on different occasions.

In one match I was playing Serbia and my opponent was the Argentines, we were playing on the map Alps and all the fighting occured on the mountain pass.
This match was a long one (note it wasn't treaty) so fighting started near the 27th minute mark. I remember my score being 900-1.1k while the other dude had 1.6-1.9k. I know score doesn't really determinate how much better a player is, but it gives you the idea of how many resources he has and stuff.
Needless to say, I had the least resources indeed, he almost doubled me in every single res except for wood, and I still won.

The guy was an expert and used every counter to my units but Serbia's bonus can be so OP, it's just insane. I literally just spammed Hadjuks and won to his skirm/art/ combo without issues.
Since the bonus is limitless, Serbian units of any kind can achieve insane and borderline absurd amounts of stats. My Marauders could get 2.5k siege damage and all I needed was a couple of them to destroy his bararcks and raid his base in seconds.
In the end I lost like 600 troops while he lost more than 1600.

I can only think of an even more OP civ than Serbia and that would be Austria because in addition to it's already OP roster, they have the Serbian princess bonus which in effect turns them into a god-like civ.

What I'm asking is just a little nerf to that bonus, for both Serbia and Austria and even Peru (because of the card).
Maybe make the bonus less effective or put a limit to it. Any of those would do it.

It's really frustrating to see Stradiots with stats going from 600 HP to 1.3k and beyond in a matter of seconds.
If the Serbian player maintains a steady flow of units into the battlefield he's guaranteed a certain victory.

Also, I believe the absurd strength of this bonus is what makes Bulgaria useless. Serbia is basically a better Bulgaria in every way, specially militarily speaking. It's very hard to stack up the voivod aura bonus when compared to Serbia which all it needs to do is get some units killed.
 
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Hoop Thrower
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Re: Serbia's OP unit death aura

Tue Nov 21, 2017 3:01 pm

Well... all data shows the opposite. Probs it was your opponent's fault for trying to fight in a bottleneck in any case.
 
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Dr Roach
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Re: Serbia's OP unit death aura

Wed Nov 22, 2017 8:54 pm

If anything, you played well by maintaining that bottleneck.
 
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Jutlander
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Re: Serbia's OP unit death aura

Thu Nov 23, 2017 6:13 pm

If anything, you haven't updated your game.
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etrian empire
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Re: Serbia's OP unit death aura

Thu Nov 23, 2017 7:44 pm

i had the same problem, i was servia e the enemy didnt have any chance marauders with 2.6k siege damage, i destryed his wall in one hit and his castle too, and  i have the coldfix, i really think it needs a nerf, maybe a limit, like they can go strong until a certain point, not limitless, 2 times that happend and the enemy didnt had a chance against my soldiers, seimen and hadjuks with 700 atack is insane
 
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carlosbarano
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Re: Serbia's OP unit death aura

Fri Nov 24, 2017 12:36 pm

I agree, as I said on discord, the Serbian player just needs to send the new army to where the old armydied, and the aura is still there for some seconds. I did this experiment: made 5 battalions of 20 Seimen. Unupgraded Siemen with 135 hitpoints and 20 attack. Sent 1st battalion to war, and when 8 Seimen remained, I sent the 2nd battalion, and when 8 Seimen remained, I sent the 3rd and so on. When the I sent th 5th battalion, the 20 new Seimen that just arrived instantly passed from 20 to 140 attack. This is Seimen, if you want better just let die some of them and send the real good units or cav last. 

This needs a limit, here the attack increased 600% with just 60 Seimenm cheap and fast to train. Perhaps 200% limit is enough (with Seimen from 20 attack to 60 attack). 

Yes all in 1.09D
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Jutlander
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Re: Serbia's OP unit death aura

Fri Nov 24, 2017 1:03 pm

Well the I don't see it happening, since it's been a while since we disabled the ability to increase other unit's hp with the Serbian aura.
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PepePeyote
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Jesuit Priest
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Re: Serbia's OP unit death aura

Fri Nov 24, 2017 9:49 pm

Jutlander wrote: Well the I don't see it happening, since it's been a while since we disabled the ability to increase other unit's hp with the Serbian aura.
I don't see the need to discredit our thoughts and opinions by saying we haven't "updated the mod", that is plain absurd.
True, I may have mistaken the HP stats increase factor, since it doesn't apply anymore, but the point still remains and that is the damage boost bonus.

Now HoopThrower has a point: maybe if we had played in a different map and used other strategies other than frontal assaults  things could have gone different, I accept that.
He also said data isn't really showing Serbia as the faction with the highest win rates, and again I agree with that.

However if I'm not mistaken, this data only refers to games played on ESO. There is no way to gather data of games played on GameRanger (to my knowledge) unless people manually track their games, which admittedly is quite a task most players on GR wouldn't bother to do.

Also, the data shows most WoL games last 20 or so minutes on average. When taking these factors into account, indeed, Serbia is not that strong.
If Serbia is successfully rushed or bested in the early game, the aura bonus is not as effective. but if the game somehow drags up until the middle-late games (beyond the 20s minutes) it is a whole different story. 

They key factor for an easy win playing as Serbia is eco. All the Serbian player needs to do is build an eco strong enough to support continuous waves of attacks so the aura unit dmg bonus never ends. Hajduks, while having mediocre HP stats, can easily get over 800 dmg and that is enough to destroy anything the opponent has to offer.
I've won many games using only Hajduks; if the enemy brings artillery all I need to do is to shoot at it with just a couple of them, and if he has massed skirms I still decimate his troops with my OP troops.
It's even more quick if I micro my troops to engage targets individually.

I don't even need to upgrade anything except range boost for the Hajduks. Everything is reduced to lame spamming a single mediocre unit that suddenly gets irrational damage stats in short time.
 
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Circle of Ossus
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Re: Serbia's OP unit death aura

Sat Nov 25, 2017 10:51 am

If only these Hadjuks had an imperial upgrade, then they wouldn't die that quickly... 
XD
I found the aura thing strong early in the game, as it can make a huge diffference in early battles (it temporarily gives your units something like a veteran status). You must also have been playing on wood heavy maps, as for example Polynesian atoll this strategy won't work (you use a lot of wood for crops and hadjuks). If the aura is really that powerfull late in the game, why not decrease a bit the time it is on the field? Also, if I were the enemy, I would try to sneak some cavalry to attack all your wood choppers if I see that many hadjuks.
 
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carlosbarano
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Re: Serbia's OP unit death aura

Sat Nov 25, 2017 2:01 pm

Wood is not necessary for this to work, as stated in my Seimen experiment. Just food and gold, and some Stradiots for last and get that 600% attack increase in age2. More like imperial status attack. 
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