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Buff the Balkans Civs !!!!!!! [ not greek tho ]

Posted: Fri Apr 19, 2019 8:37 pm
by JuicedDragoon
The Balkan civs are honestly o much fun to play untill u get to the point where u need to make crops, that just completely ruin them. Having to micro all the crops, without having something like the granary [afrcan civs] just makes them complete breadfruit unless u good enough to micro them, but that will still detour new Wol players from playing them again. This really sucks balls devs.

Please fix

Re: Buff the Balkans Civs !!!!!!! [ not greek tho ]

Posted: Fri Apr 19, 2019 8:39 pm
by JuicedDragoon
Come on please devs im begging u, im a little man from africa plssssssssssss helpppp save the Romanians 

Re: Buff the Balkans Civs !!!!!!! [ not greek tho ]

Posted: Fri Apr 19, 2019 8:58 pm
by Circle of Ossus
1) Making two identical threads is euh... I hope an error from your side, and not intentional
2) You shouldn't double post. Edit posts instead.
3) Sucking balls... together with the other two errors, this doesn't give a good first impression of you.
Anyway
The devs are looking into improving the crops. They are well aware that Balkan civs have many problems. It's my favorite culture, but they do have many unattractive aspects. The next patch might have a change that will make handling those crops a lot easier; but don't be angry if it won't be the case, it remains a possibility. IMO the biggest problem of crops is that placing them isn't easy as the foundations disappear quickly, and you need a lot of room. Having limited towers, who are also your barracks so you will need them for the offensive, means that you very little possibilities to protect vils. In one of my last games that was exactly what happened: I got raided multiple times from the back, where my crops were. For anyone reading this: maybe merge the functionality of two crops into one? Let's take a crop of 10 wood, 1000 food storage and 1,5 food accumulation. Merging two into one would mean that it costs 20 wood, has 2000 storage and has 3 food accumulation. It should essentially remain the same as before, but it will take less room. And I don't think people plant crops one by one anyway. The only negative I can think of, is that you cannot chose to plant 5 strawberries: it will have to be 4 or 6. But I think halving the spatial consumption isn't too strong.

Re: Buff the Balkans Civs !!!!!!! [ not greek tho ]

Posted: Fri Apr 19, 2019 11:35 pm
by Septafolia
I am developing a plan to completely overhaul crops and make them much better, but it might not come out for a few patches. This will come alongside an overall rework of the Balkans civs in general. Be patient. In the meantime, as Circle mentioned, there'll be minor fixes to make them somewhat more bearable.

Also…

Breadfruit?

Re: Buff the Balkans Civs !!!!!!! [ not greek tho ]

Posted: Mon Apr 22, 2019 6:06 am
by Lightwell7
Breadfruit 2: Return of the Balkans.

Re: Buff the Balkans Civs !!!!!!! [ not greek tho ]

Posted: Mon Apr 22, 2019 8:18 am
by Circle of Ossus
I also want to remind the devs of this thread again. viewtopic.php?f=8&t=1747&p=15001&hilit= ... its#p15001
Because the Serbs and Romanians tend to struggle with infantry quality.
Also, the Chetnik should really get a review. It's costlier than the Skirmisher, yet its HP is much lower, rendering its its armor a non-factor. I understand that the unit is two times the attack, half the HP. But it by that logic, it shouldn't be costlier, it should even be cheaper because the armor becomes a non-factor and because "UU should usually be slightly better than the original unit". To spare you the comparing: it has three other things that it is better in: +1 LOS, -5 trainpoints and +1 build XP (but that's countered by +1 kill XP).
And I just found a BUG:
Skirmishers start with the veteran promotion. The Chetnik doesn't, and also doesn't get upgraded with the first casern upgrade. This makes the Chetnik definitely weaker than the skirmisher.
EDIT: Does the Vanator also have the same issue?

Re: Buff the Balkans Civs !!!!!!! [ not greek tho ]

Posted: Mon Apr 22, 2019 1:20 pm
by DavidIbragimov
Speaking of Buff for Balkans, can we plz get more unit diversity for the Bulgarians? I know there soldiers are OP, but they simply cost too much and train too long. Though this is my favorite country to play with, I am starting to get very bleak with it. Because for for 3 ages my, base is literally empty of all military, which makes me feel very naked on defense
(thats not an issue though). But when I get to industrial, I find myself always rushing to defend myself from incoming hordes. And when the soldiers are training in 1's or in large groups, which is time wasting, I find myself wishing their were some more weaker troops to stall until my Paborniks and Spasiteli are ready for battle....
                                                                  What do you think?
                                                                                                  -David

Re: Buff the Balkans Civs !!!!!!! [ not greek tho ]

Posted: Mon Apr 29, 2019 4:55 am
by Mala_Cara
Come on man , if build some walls and put the live stock to work and some behives you boom for sure no need for crops but you can plant some while the pigs grow up to keep the food on top I have had up to 15000 on food and gold with that method and i think that's great , plus the visuals of the beehives it's funny :D the more you have the better , just heal the military units to save resources , the Orthodox Church seems to be really useful (Hegumens spawn automatically)

Re: Buff the Balkans Civs !!!!!!! [ not greek tho ]

Posted: Mon Apr 29, 2019 9:03 am
by Circle of Ossus
Geese are good as food resource indeed. BUT:
- They require a lot of micro. At some point this might become too much, and then you will run out of food. If you run out of food, then you will also be unable to spawn your food source, that's an important inconvenience.
- Romanians and Greeks have not access to another herdable.
- Pigs/Sheep fatten slowly at hunting lodges (techs don't work)
- Romania can become very food-heavy early, when you spam out villagers. Geese cannot follow this speed. Or you sacrifice on villager creation, or you plant crops, or you do some risky hunts.

In the current version, most Balkans civs are too weak to win late game (30-40 or later). Except for the Greeks.
Serbia's Chetnik is a bit UP, and all other infantry is useless. Both late UU have low HP, which increases the benefit of the UA, but also puts a burden on your (food) economy.
Bulgaria's army has three major weaknesses that are difficult to overcome: skirm weakness, slow train time and population issues. This makes them bad late game. Crops are usually not important while playing as them.
Romania has nothing special late game, and has no typical skirmisher. I don't even know how I would counter dragoons with them. But dragoons are common late game. So you will probably have to spam?
This leaves only the Greeks. They are the boomer of the three. But on land maps, they will also need crops, since you have a very good but very food-heavy UU, the Chorophyllax.

I no longer know why I wrote that minor overview :-/
I just want to finish with this: Balkan civs typically must win within the first 30 minutes. You don't have much time to heal units, you may not boom for long. If you run out of hunts, you cannot risk waiting on food from geese, you will need to place some crops, preferably you placed them early enough. 

Re: Buff the Balkans Civs !!!!!!! [ not greek tho ]

Posted: Mon Apr 29, 2019 2:29 pm
by UnstoppableStreletsy
Greeks are the closest thing to a European economy you will get out of a Balkan civ. They have the olive plantation which has one of the best gathering rates in the game, a infinite source of food on water maps in the form of fishing traps, and are the only civ in the culture to have a religion: Judaism, which has all 4 faith upgrades, Gold production is never the problem later on, its the food. The traps should give you just enough food to get by for many situations, but supplementing the income with a few crops will help you stockpile food for later. Essentially if you get the chance, build some strawberries or something to get a quick 20000 or so food every now and then that will be the base of your infantry and cavalry armies later. Also make use of artillery with balkan civs. The balkan civs strong suit is cavalry and artillery which is pretty consistent across the board. A army of boyars, stradiots, and scheinders can do alot of damage. Only use infantry if it is cost effecient to do so. Bulgaria and Greece are the exception as they have solid infantry units you can depend on. Balkans are a closest experience you will get to playing as a African civ, a system completely turned on it's head. If you can master the balkans, the Africans should be much easier for you.