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oscars
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Fur Trader
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Speaking about Italians

Wed Apr 12, 2017 9:56 am

Hello. I read the description here and saw some preview skirmish on youtube: you give them only 2 unique crappy military units (greater range but less hp and damage: in a game where units don't die with a single shoot and hand to hand fight is easy to find it means they are almost useless units to play)...at least make them cheaper, villager with disabilities (it collect resources but can't build)...at least make them cheaper...and Maffioso (OMG).
Pizza, Mafia, Mandolino...we are victims of stereotypes...at least write Mafia with only one f (because Maffia was another organization), the Church (ok true), then you think we had nothing more and we didn't know how to fight war (on front lines).
I think you don't know much of our history...you know we won some war for example against Austria (yes with help of France, but we were a small country and Austria-Hungary was a giant in that time), against Ottoman Empire (yes it was in 1911-1912, but i think in this mod is included that time, because was before first world war). If you know that why do you make Italy so weak?
We had a strong navy and not a very good economy in that time; a little (compared to other European Powers) but specialized army with various corps like Alpini and Bersaglieri (not crappy like these), Corazzieri (like French cuirassiers), Granatieri di Sardegna (grenadiers), Carabinieri (light cavarly and used as Police force, like French Gendarmerie)...and Giuseppe Garibaldi was Italian, but it seems we haven't Red Shirts in the game (all have them except Italy, very funny XD).
At that time Italy was very influenced by French culture, especially the aristocracy and high bourgeoisie of Piedmont, they spoke French too.
Anyway you are making a good work with this mod, i like it very much but i don't like what are u doing with Italian civ, so i hope that you will take into account my words.
Sorry for bad English.
 
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Fenriz
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Re: Why do you make Italians so weak?

Wed Apr 12, 2017 5:05 pm

Cheers and Welcome Oscar !, I can understand some points in your argument, but definitely you need to try the civ, because without having played and reviewed in detail are only giving to skewed opinion of something you do not know, then I recommend wait until the launch.
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Hoop Thrower
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Re: Why do you make Italians so weak?

Wed Apr 12, 2017 5:25 pm

Who the hell complains about civilizations that haven't even been released?

There's no way in hell you can tell whether Alpini and Bersaglieri are weak or not.
 
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oscars
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Fur Trader
Fur Trader
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Location: Italy
Favorite Civilization: Americans

Re: Why do you make Italians so weak?

Wed Apr 12, 2017 6:37 pm

Thanks for answer me, guys. i should be more specific: i read this http://aoe3wol.com/europeans#Italians and watched https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ph3fjYjwZyE
The description of Alpino and Bersargliere both "with greater range but less hp and damage". Ok you are making the Mod do your choice, it's only my opinion but if will be as described in your site is clear they will not have much of a chance against the normal counterpart. Yes with greater range they could shoot one bullet more (good for Alpino is a skirmisher) but a Bersagliere is a musketeer and need to be more resistant. Then i don't like too much that this civ will have only 2 unique military units (as described in your site) because I have to say that seeing other civilizations that we are already playing are very well made with more unique military units than 2.
Thanks for the excellent work done until now, i hope to play the update as soon as possible.
 
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UnstoppableStreletsy
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Re: Why do you make Italians so weak?

Wed Apr 12, 2017 6:43 pm

From personal experience with the civ in mod and a person who is partially Italian I do not believe some of your arguments regarding the civ's weaknesses are true. Whether you want to test the alpini and bersaglieri yourself in scenario editor or play a previous version where they are available as a hc file, you will soon realize that both units are not only good, but borderline op. That range damage and range that both units have gives them the ability to shoot units before they even get into firing range. Sure I messed them up when I tried it early in the mod, but once I learned to micro them, I found a 6 alpini card in the second age is enough to defeat 1-2 players at a time even if they already sent 3 hussars. Granted, the wol team decided to make them inoperable this patch to prevent abuse online, but before that, using Italians was seen as being worse than using Spain (a op civ indeed) because of the potential that alpini and bersaglieri played. About the other things like church and such that seemed weak, the reason they look weak because the civ was unfinished and some features weren't even ready yet like the maffioso. When the next patch comes sooner or later, you will quake in fear of Italy as a civ I will assure you.

In regards to the bersaglieri, the do agree it is a little fragile, but then again, it can ac as a cheap alternative to alpinis in some situations in mass when hussars or cuirassiers are used.
 
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oscars
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Fur Trader
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Re: Why do you make Italians so weak?

Wed Apr 12, 2017 8:18 pm

Ok i saw them in scenario as UnstoppableStreletsy suggested. You were right for Alpino is op because of higher range u can easily hit and run; but Bersagliere isn't a musketeer for me, with only 110 hp and hand attack 5x 3 vs cavs, it's another skirmisher. Ok i'll play like Dutch spamming some pikes/halberdiers for cover them.
 
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oscars
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Fur Trader
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Location: Italy
Favorite Civilization: Americans

Re: Why do you make Italians so weak?

Thu Jul 06, 2017 12:55 pm

HI. I really like the construction system of Italians. Architects are very good but at the same time they are very vulnerable because can't save inside TC like normal villagers and risk to lose a game too. I make an example: I played a game vs extreme AI and happened that it raided me, killed all architects and destroyed 1 house so i was overpop and i had to suicide units for remake architects and make new buildings. I solved this by put in my deck a card with them but still if i already used it and they raid me again...  Is there any chance you fix this, pls?
 
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Jutlander
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Re: Why do you make Italians so weak?

Thu Jul 06, 2017 1:59 pm

Yeah, sounds right. Sorry about that. If you could write the same suggestion in the ''Bugs'' thread that would be great (Just so we don't forget).
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oscars
Topic Author
Fur Trader
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Re: Why do you make Italians so weak?

Thu Jul 06, 2017 5:09 pm

Thank you. I copy and paste previous post on bugs.

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