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Circle of Ossus
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The current case of Peru

Sat Jul 13, 2019 7:38 pm

My first writing about this got lost. F. So here I present something of lower writing quality
 
Peru is considered by many a weak civ, and only a few claim they can do meaningful stuff with them. But why is that?
Abilities:
- Speed/los bonues: ok
- Earlier building unlocking: great bonues, is their main strength.
- Techs to focus on a unit type: cool, is the only thing giving Peru some late game potential (they lack military or economic upgrades in their HC, and lack strong unique units). Problem is, they replace the standard train time reductions other LA have, and that actually hurts Peru a lot. I propose to give them those techs too, depending on your choice of unittype focus. If you focus on infantry, you will only get the cav train time reduction. If you focus on artillery/ships, you will have access to both the infantry and the cavalry train time reductions. This will make the less logical choices more attractive.
- Decoys: no information about them. Recently they received a huge buff.
 
Units:
- The villager can hide in other buildings, but those buildings don’t shoot back AFAIK. Is weaker than the Korean bonus. But the real problem is, is the train time: 35s instead of 25s. That makes the civ much slower. A second TC doesn’t really solve things: you spend an expensive shipment on it. Compare that to Portugal, who receives free TC’s and villagers don’t train slower. It is a mystery why it is that bad. Those 10s make the civ extremely slow. Too slow. The unique unit feels like a punishment.
- The Brenero: is a very frail skirmisher. Decently strong. If you don’t kite, they’ll die. But unlike the Voluntario, who also have to kite to be effective, they don’t have more speed, meaning that you need much more skill to pull it off. On top of that, the pricing of the Brenero feels inconvenient.
- The Peruana is in a difficult spot: why not bad, it counters the same thing breneros counter (heavy inf), and share a weakness. They can soak up damage, and can destroy buildings at least. Biggest problem is the train time for the quick Peru: 50 second, more than the 42 second for grenadiers.
 
Cards:
The civ, with its weak economy, is held together by a few strong cards.
- TC wagon. Not necessarily too strong, it’s really understandable why it is there, remains still an unseen strong card.
- 4 Legion Peruana. Is worth 720 resources. More than other cards, but considering the slow train time, this is an awesome card.
- 9 breneros. In age 2. Total value of 900 resources, a whopping +50% more value compared standard cards like 6 line infantry or 600 res crates. I believe it’s a relic from the days where the brenero was cheaper, but now it’s the most important card the civ has.
Playing without these 3 cards would be almost suicide.
 
I propose to think about the following proposals:
- Fix the unit cards (I mentioned).
- Set villager train time to the ordinary rate.
- Reduce brenero cost by 10 coin.
- Bring Peruana train time to something like 38 or 40. A bit faster than the grenadier.
- If all this becomes too strong, consider moving the TC wagon back to age3. The ability affects the buildings in se, not the cards. Wood crates can take over the role of that spot.
- The change of the train time techs.
 - Starting vils/crates might need to be revisited due to these buffs.

I probably forgot a few things, but this is the general idea to make Peru more in line with the other civs.
Last edited by Circle of Ossus on Thu Aug 01, 2019 10:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.
AI game on patch 1.0.11b (and onwards): viewtopic.php?f=4&t=1981
Swiss UA proposal (obsolete?): viewtopic.php?f=8&t=768&p=6612#p6612
 
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Re: The current case of Peru

Sat Jul 13, 2019 10:32 pm

I personally think Peru is in an ok spot right now.
Techs to focus on a unit type: cool, is the only thing giving Peru some late game potential (they lack military or economic upgrades in their HC, and lack strong unique units). Problem is, they replace the standard train time reductions other LA have, and that actually hurts Peru a lot. I propose to give them those techs too, depending on your choice of unittype focus. If you focus on infantry, you will only get the cav train time reduction. If you focus on artillery/ships, you will have access to both the infantry and the cavalry train time reductions. This will make the less logical choices more attractive.
I can't say much for late-game Peru as I usually like to end it early, but note that Peru also gets the ability to switch to the Serbian bonus from movement speed, thanks to a shipment. The lack of train-time ups can be somewhat circumvented with spamming barracks, but I personally think that removing the techs entirely is alright for a civ based on being Fast and Furious, not slog it out.
- The villager can hide in other buildings, but those buildings don’t shoot back AFAIK. Is weaker than the Korean bonus. But the real problem is, is the train time: 35s instead of 25s. That makes the civ much slower. A second TC doesn’t really solve things: you spend an expensive shipment on it. Compare that to Portugal, who receives free TC’s and villagers don’t train slower. It is a mystery why it is that bad. Those 10s make the civ extremely slow. Too slow. The unique unit feels like a punishment.
Since Peru is supposed to be an aggressive, rush civ, unlike Korea, this bonus is logically weaker so as to not make Peru potentially un-raidable due to me being able to build a house next to a far-away patch of bison with a ton of vils and punish your raiding units for daring to come near. The bonus is ok for defense, but if you wanna make them back off you have to lose potency on your rush, which is a good trade-off IMO. As for Portugal, the civ has 0 potency in the early game so the comparison is fairly inadequate. I think the 35s traintime is a good tradeoff, especially due to what you can do as Peru, which I will describe down the line.
The civ, with its weak economy, is held together by a few strong cards.
- TC wagon. Not necessarily too strong, it’s really understandable why it is there, remains still an unseen strong card.
- 4 Legion Peruana. Is worth 720 resources. More than other cards, but considering the slow train time, this is an awesome card.
- 9 breneros. In age 2. Total value of 900 resources, a whopping +50% more value compared standard cards like 6 line infantry or 600 res crates. I believe it’s a relic from the days where the brenero was cheaper, but now it’s the most important card the civ has.
Playing without these 3 cards would be almost suicide.
TC Wagon is a large investment, plus it is technically weaker than 700wood. I can technically replace the TC Wagon with 600w for a more flexible boost, less prone to being killed by random hussars.
Peruana is a pretty niche unit, only really useful for sieging imo, so this will only be useful if you won but need to push it
Brenero shipment is alright IMO, only issue could be the fact that you get enough to oneshot a vil in a single volley, which could get cheeky with a certain age-up...
- The Brenero: is a very frail skirmisher. Decently strong. If you don’t kite, they’ll die. But unlike the Voluntario, who also have to kite to be effective, they don’t have more speed, meaning that you need much more skill to pull it off. On top of that, the pricing of the Brenero feels inconvenient.
Voluntario has half the damage and gets +1 speed, plus if some units die, the Brenero will get faster, so if you lose a few you can get enough speed to get some distance. Also, never forget to ship the Machetero in case they hit you with Hussars :)
In your next Peru game, try this build order.
If 200w start, build a TP and go for a 12/10, during age-up switch 9 vils to wood so you can build a house.
if 300w, go TP+House and 13 vils.
Age up with 2 Outposts, place them either near the enemy to raid/deny hunts or near hunt patches to secure them. If you go for the raiding option, note that 8 Brenero can oneshot a vil in 1 volley. And you can ship 9.
10-15 Brenero and shipped 8 Machetero makes for a good force against civs which do not have high-range units. Otherwise, focus on Lancers/ship Brenero instead.
Do not send TC because you can. Only do it if you have a food surplus and aren't in desperate need for more units.
I hope this helps someone who wants to pick up Peru.
 
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Re: The current case of Peru

Sun Jul 14, 2019 9:34 am

Why are you commenting on the text instead of the proposals? I don't want the garrisoned villagers to shoot. About the "focus on unittype techs": I personally like them, they give you (together with a second TC) the ability to do a surprise boom. Definitely not the best way to play Peru of course, but a bit of flexibility/unpredictableness can be good. Problem remains that you actually lose the other train techs. Since Peru is about going quick and aggressive + doesn't have a good eco, I'm rather certain it works in their disadvantage that they don't have those cheap train techs.
I can't believe you find extra powerful shipments ok, even more since the required 9 brenero is clearly a coding error. I also don't agree with Portugal being bad early, but that's another discussion.
But please, discuss my proposals. They shouldn't make Peru play totally different, they are meant to make Peru fairer to play with.
AI game on patch 1.0.11b (and onwards): viewtopic.php?f=4&t=1981
Swiss UA proposal (obsolete?): viewtopic.php?f=8&t=768&p=6612#p6612
 
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Re: The current case of Peru

Sun Jul 14, 2019 12:48 pm

Thing is, I disagree with your assessments from which the suggestions are built. Only suggestion I can potentially agree on is nerfing the 9 Brenero due to cheesing a forward Outpost in rush games, which I mentioned. Not the power of the shipment itself. Get a few Hussars and Brenero just melt. It won't change much if you ship 9 or 7 if they die so easily.
I personally think that Peru's power is yet to be fully seen, and I am practicing the civ just to see how much I can do with it. The build order I gave gives it solid strength, but atm I am stuck on a 3:30-4 minute age-up, which I think is an ok tradeoff due to being able to place a forward HC spawn point.
I especially warn against making Brenero more affordable, as it has 20 Base damage with 18 range. VS civs without proper skirms, this is effectively a death sentence with good micro.
 
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Re: The current case of Peru

Mon Jul 15, 2019 4:31 am

Cholos take longer to train than regular villagers. Once we change that back Peru will be what it is supposed to be again.
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Re: The current case of Peru

Tue Jul 30, 2019 6:46 pm

Currently, Peru is in a good spot for the most part. Brenero's are mildly a pain to deal with which they should be, any buff would make them unbearable like when the civ was first introduced. The cards you suggested seem reasonable enough and should be considered. One thing that was mentioned that I think would add a little more depth to the civ would be to have a second clement mission card that costs 6400 wood and 6400 coin, but upgrades all 4 paths for lvl's 3 and 4. Makes the civ a more interesting one in treaty and deathmatch games, and offers peru great turtling benefits for ffa's or to those who would be willing to sacrifice getting upgrades early to make up for it later on.

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