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Circle of Ossus
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Re: Italian Balancing

Wed Aug 07, 2019 9:43 am

Italians will get a major rework, so I think it's better to wait for that instead of proposing "fixes". I think the team already knows how they're going to design the new Italian civ, so any proposal might be of no real use.
AI game on patch 1.0.11b (and onwards): viewtopic.php?f=4&t=1981
Swiss UA proposal (obsolete?): viewtopic.php?f=8&t=768&p=6612#p6612
 
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Stealth
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Re: Italian Balancing

Wed Aug 07, 2019 2:45 pm

The Italian rework is probably not coming for awhile. Unfortunately things like that take some time and probably have not been started yet. Plus they might not know exactly what changes they are going to make yet.  So a few ideas, whether they are used or even viewed by the developers took about 3 minutes to write. You are one of the more active members on this message board and I always appreciate your time and opinion
I am too old for games like this but too young to resist playing them
 
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ImperialPhalanx
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Re: Italian Balancing

Tue Aug 20, 2019 5:08 pm

imho, yes, a lot of the cards are useless, I never use the statues, the religion game for Italy is weaker than most other civs, and a lot of the espionage/deception/support capabilities of Italy are so convoluted that they are practically useless.  I feel like they need to be brought more in line with the other European civs, and they need a different ultimate unit. The Mafioso is a great idea thematically, but for them to be effective ingame the player needs to get to Age 5, while most my games end in 3 or 4. 

I definitely agree that their long range could be played with more, and the Grenadieri di Sargenda could (and imo should) be the ultimate unit for Italy, as not only were they formed in this time period, they are the oldest standing regiment in Italy to this day, and they were the personal guards of Emmanuel II, the faction leader for Italy in this mod.

Honestly, I know it was orignally one of their core distinctions, but I would move Italy away from its religion focus, because the KoSJ does the religion integration into their gameplay much more smoothly and thematically than Italy does.  I think the Cacciatori should be trainable for the KoSJ, but that's a different thread.
 
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Stealth
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Re: Italian Balancing

Tue Sep 10, 2019 3:37 am

Italians are fine vs any level of AI.  I play AI most of the time because of schedules, finding another human to play against is difficult to impossible.  With that said Vs AI the statues are effective but can be enhanced and it's not that hard to get to survive to age 5 to unleash Mafiosos with the Violin Case.  Elmeti's and Redshirts are good but so hard to get large numbers of them because they are merc's.  When I have played humans, the Italians get rushed on early and easily and don't have much of a chance.  So I look forward to the changes that are coming but hope they don't rework the entire civ, but just enhance the current civ. Keep the statues, Mafiosos, religion and spread the range to the all other range units including artillery. 

Finally, I disagree with people who say the Italians aren't worth playing because you have no chance of winning. In all AOE games, whoever micro manages better will beat other players using any civ.     
I am too old for games like this but too young to resist playing them
 
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ImperialPhalanx
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Re: Italian Balancing

Tue Sep 10, 2019 3:42 pm

IMHO, the Mafiosos were a cool idea, but they kinda fall flat in practice, because they only realize their full potential in age V, and most of my games are done WAAAY before that.

I still think the Sargenda Bombadiers should become the ultimate unit for Italy.
 
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Hoop Thrower
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Re: Italian Balancing

Tue Sep 10, 2019 4:17 pm

Aren't they just grenadiers?

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