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ImperialPhalanx
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Italian Balancing

Tue Jun 04, 2019 10:50 pm

Hi! I would like to start off by saying how much I loooove this mod!  This mod makes AOE III so much more fun, and I'm bugging all of my friends to pick it up!

But how the Italians are balanced brings me joy and frustration at the same time.  As a history buff, I find it hilarious how the Italians are basically useless, as this is historically accurate (in my opinion, no insult to any modern Italians is intended).  But as a university student studying game design, and as a lifelong strategy game player, this frustrates me a tad.  I like playing as the Italians in other games, and I love the country and want to learn the language irl, but playing as the Italians in WOL, especially not on a team or in multiplayer, is basically impossible.

I know it makes historical sense for the Italians to have a "Weak Army" as the website states, but in a game about warfare, this seems like a bit much. It is like designing a car for Rocket League, but it's "Not Good at Driving".  It defeats the whole purpose.  Mafioso are only useful in age V, and the vast majority of my games end in age III or IV.

In my opinion, there is one change that could be made to make the Italians more viable, but still keep a "Weak Army" feel to them.  Currently, the Italians Unique units both have a melee attack and a health debuff from their counterparts in other nations.  I think it would be sensible to remove the health debuff, or at least replace it with a lower melee defense.  They can still be a "Weak Army" by having them be trash at melee combat. This encourages players fighting against Italians to bring melee troops, or order their ranged units to charge, and it forces the Italian player to think more about positioning and army composition.

This alteration would keep the Italians at a slight army disadvantage to other nations, but it would make them more viable if a skilled commander is at the helm.

Thank you for all your work on this mod!  I hope the Swedes come out soon (they are my friend's favorite faction, and he's guaranteed to get this mod when they do)
 
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Circle of Ossus
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Re: Italian Balancing

Wed Jun 05, 2019 10:40 am

The team knows that Italy has little going for it. The Architect gives almost no advantage, the range bonus only affects two units and the statues are very specialized. The "Weak Army" thing only affects the alpini and the bersaglieri IIRC. Anyway, the info on the site is heavily outdated. The team is trying to get the wiki up to date, and probably they will move all info there instead of on this site. But Italy will receive a rework.
AI game on patch 1.0.11b (and onwards): viewtopic.php?f=4&t=1981
Swiss UA proposal (obsolete?): viewtopic.php?f=8&t=768&p=6612#p6612
 
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ImperialPhalanx
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Re: Italian Balancing

Wed Jun 05, 2019 12:20 pm

Thank you! That's all we the community ever ask for.  Keep up the good work!
 
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ShinkuroYukinari
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Re: Italian Balancing

Mon Jul 22, 2019 9:10 am

Have you tried rushing with Bersagliere? They are effectively superior Ashigaru/Shaguma with a whopping 16 range. Against civs which lack proper skirms this is a really reliable unit. Otherwise, stick to team games, where you can reliably spam 1 unit.
 
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Jutlander
Wars of Liberty Team
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Location: Kingdom of Araucania and Patagonia
Favorite Civilization: Polish

Re: Italian Balancing

Mon Jul 22, 2019 7:22 pm

We are aware of the mistakes we made during the design phase for the italians.
The point was to make them, as you might have realized, good in team games: They bring the range and an awful lot of utility. In reality, this just didn't happen.
On top of that, the architect is clumsy and the benefit is very small in the vast majority of cases so, yeah, also no fun and a mistake on my part.

Still, there's a rework going on for them, which will make both their utility way more useful and significant, and their army more useful, while keeping the uniqueness of their longer range, but now with many options concerning all other aspects of combat.

Can't wait for you guys to play them.
Image
 
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UnstoppableStreletsy
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Re: Italian Balancing

Thu Jul 25, 2019 5:09 pm

Ya, from playing Italy in all sorts of games, its clear that there isn't many realistic pastabilities of gameplay as the civilization. More often than not you become dependent on alpini, halberds, and hussars with berseglieres following out of favor later on and having the worse hp and attack'd cavalry of any European without any upgrade cards besides for movement speed.
 
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ImperialPhalanx
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Re: Italian Balancing

Mon Jul 29, 2019 2:37 pm

Well, if the team needs someone to test or help out with the rework, I'd be glad to!  I've come up with balanced rosters for another historical strategy game, and I've love to help this mod!  
 
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Banyana
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Re: Italian Balancing

Mon Jul 29, 2019 3:44 pm

Join discord and write some nice text in " Call for the Volunteers "
Smile like a Banyana... Image
 
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Stealth
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Location: City of Angels
Favorite Civilization: Italians
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Re: Italian Balancing

Tue Jul 30, 2019 4:41 am

kk
Last edited by Stealth on Tue Aug 13, 2019 5:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.
I am too old for games like this but too young to resist playing them
 
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Stealth
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Re: Italian Balancing

Wed Aug 07, 2019 5:10 am

Italians are my main civ, I probably play them more than any other WOL player and I play them 90% of the time so I have some ideas, please bare with me.

Add range for the other ranged units like Rangers, Dragoons, artillery and Redshirts. Redshirts cards could be better, they could include more troops. They have high attack and siege but drop like flies because of low hp, maybe give them more hp. Perhaps them and Mafias can be accessible in Age 3? Add range for statues and priests. Better healing and condemning for researched italian priests. I still think the Italians should have two Basillicas. How they are the most powerful religious civ but the only catholic civ that cant have two churches is odd. Another poster last year had great religious ideas for a new civ Papal States. Implementing those ideas into the italian civ would be great.

During the Italian unification the economy was in bad shape. So perhaps give discounts on villagers, buildings, or aging up costs? Also like the Koreans allow Italy to garrison its weak infantry inside of towers, forts, and buildings and fire out of them. 

Some of the cards are useless and should just be normal parts of the game.  Unforgivable Sin Card, I tried it for the first time today. Its fun, but a waste of time. Marble Statues should already equipped with extra hp and they should automatically be able to condemn opposing priests, I couldn't believe I had to be right next to a priest with a statue and manually attack it with the statue. Wouldn't rushing priests with troops or spies be easier?  I like the idea of the Omerta Card but it is a merchant suicide card. If that card could be reworked and useful, that be great. 

I like the architects but as earlier stated by one of the developers, they are clumsy. They will try to attack enemies nearby with no chance of winning. I hope the team decides to keep them but makes them more useful. Like faster builders for walls and wagons? Anyways, thanks for the great game and I am looking forward to the reworked Italians civ
Last edited by Stealth on Tue Aug 13, 2019 5:24 pm, edited 4 times in total.
I am too old for games like this but too young to resist playing them

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