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Circle of Ossus
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Re: AI game (or at least a try)

Wed May 08, 2019 12:15 pm

Coming to an end? I'm not even half way. Because I planned it as a real tournament, just not with "laddering" in the usual sense. The winning AI's go to the next round, and the new matchups will be decided randomly. And I plan to make a "second chance" tournament, where AI's who lost compete in. So far, the Sioux have been a very strong AI, it might be that they lost due to that one opponent greatly countering them, and it might be that they are the strongest AI in general.
AI game on patch 1.0.11b (and onwards): viewtopic.php?f=4&t=1981
Swiss UA proposal (obsolete?): viewtopic.php?f=8&t=768&p=6612#p6612
 
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Re: AI game (or at least a try)

Wed May 08, 2019 1:27 pm

*This is my 100th Post in the Forums!!!*

Good! I was hoping that this could really go on..... But I have a question(s).

After the start off round, will the ladders be played default (1st game winner fights 2nd game winner), will they be played randomely (mixed), or will the matches be manually made?

Each different type of selction might have its own positives and negatives.

Random picking will allow more unusual matches to happen while manual will allow more evened out matches in your experience from the winning civs.

Also, this is just a question for the future if this turns into a long term event, what will happen new civs get introduced, or there are patches that fix some of the worser bugs or AI algorithm misfunctions?
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Re: AI game (or at least a try)

Wed May 08, 2019 5:30 pm

All that should be clear from my first post. But anyway:
- A, B, C and D have respectively won a game. I randomize the duels. A might thus face B, C or D.
The ones who lost against those 4, K L M N, will get a second chance. Duels will again be randomized. At some point, probably with the semi-finals or finals, the winner(s) of the second chance category will rejoin the tournament. I haven't decided on that as I haven't even started the "second chance tournament".
- No updating during a round (except if the last game contains the new civs).
- New civs will join in the most recent round of the tournament. If I didn't randomize the duels, they will be included in the randomization. Else, they will face each other.
AI game on patch 1.0.11b (and onwards): viewtopic.php?f=4&t=1981
Swiss UA proposal (obsolete?): viewtopic.php?f=8&t=768&p=6612#p6612
 
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Re: AI game (or at least a try)

Wed May 08, 2019 5:32 pm

Alright! (didn't pay attention, my bad)
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Re: AI game (or at least a try)

Thu May 09, 2019 8:39 pm

New part. Bad writing as I'm sleepy.

Mexico VS Iroquois
Mexico starts with their fortress here! Good, as without it they are very bad. At minute 10, both armies clash near a trade post. Mexico does have a larger army, with apache riders, so they should easily defeat the Kanye horsemen. Which they do. At minute 11, they are already III. Good! A minute later, and the Iroquoians do the same. They are also amassing an army of Kanye horsemen. Why, you might think. Answer: AI BUG. Iro’s don’t know how to produce troops out of war huts. And I haven’t seen them produce siege units either. But, we all remember Korea: the AI isn’t the best to counter mono-type armies, so that shouldn’t be a major problem. Minute 13, and a Mexican army arrives at the Iro base. They are very ineffective though, the AI tends to send troops to deep into bases, so they get fired at before they stop marching and shoot back. The Iroquoians respond by attacking the Mexicans back, and start sieging down some buildings. Several villagers are also dying. But they did defeat this wave. A few minutes later, a new, large wave of horsemen and native elephants invade the Mexican town, while the Iro’s go IV. This is Korea II! But somehow the Iro’s are suffering to get deep in the Mexican base, all the buildings block the path, and towers are dealing a lot of damage. The Mexicans, even if their base is under attack and even if these are getting reinforced, they decide to perform a sneak attack against the Iro’s. That wasn’t effective. At least their base is saved again. At minute 28, they’ve managed to produce a large army, that clashes with the Iro army. For already quite some time, the Mexicans are IV. The Iro base is in the meantime somehow void of units. A new Mexican army clashes with the remains of that Iro army, and destroys it. Minute 34, the Mexicans are V, and are invading the Iroquois. The Iroquois are extremely defenseless, they have no army, somehow no visible economy, and their war huts have no upgrades (AI BUG). The AI sees this and gives up. What went wrong? IDK, it’s not villager production. Perhaps it’s a combination of bad eco, bad unit composition and not upgrading enough.
 
Romania VS Egypt
Even if Romania has been fixed, we all know how this is going to end. Question is, how long will it take? Spoiler: 30 minutes. Not a very quick game, but still one of the quickest. After only two minutes and forty second, Egypt went age II. Romania follows 1,5 minute later. The first attack happens at 7:22. I know a lot of players who would get angry if I would start attacking then. Fortunately for Romania, a shipment had just arrived and killed of the few invading troops. I think there were some villager casualties, which is huge this early. A minor skirmish happens at minute 10 near a trade post. After 13 minutes, both AI are in age III. The longer the game goes, the less hunts, the more food troubles Romania will have. The AI is unable to use crops at the moment. At minute 15, Romania goes on the offensive with an army primarily composed of Dorobants. The army does encounter a huge fellah army, and barely makes it. Minute 16, and Egypt is already IV. Nothing special, I’ve seen Egypt go V within this time in the previous patch. Now the AI goes less crazy with aging up. The Egyptian AI has managed to get its hand on a band of Naffatuns, and these demolish a casern that was placed near the badly placed Romanian star fort. Before they can cause more trouble, Romania kills them off. And that same army goes immediately for the Egyptian base, but it gets killed off. Also, Egypt is already V since minute 18. An small Egyptian army goes for a replacer Romanian casern near the fort, and gets defeated after destroying the building. Soon after, minute 23, Egypt amasses a huge army of fellahs. But in the meantime: big Romanian army in the Egyptian base! The Fellahs, after destroying a TP, go for the fort. They should save their base! The fort got defeated, as did the invading Romanians. But the Romanians are first to have created a new army, and eventually destroy the Egyptian Town Caravan. How did that happen??? Answer: Egypt had spent three times less on units than Romania, they also collected less resources, but still had 20K of unspent resources. Which means that they were not training troops as aggressively as they did last patch. For going V, they had a miserable max amount of villagers: 45.

Serbia VS Bulgaria
Do I have to? Bulgaria has easily the most pacifistic AI. Oh well. Serbia is the first to reach age II. Pls rush and destroy them, will you? Bulgaria follows a few minutes later, at 5:03. This is the first time that the AI ages up after the 5 minute mark. Nothing too major. After taking a look at their deck, I facepalmed at the sight of the three naval shipments. Minute 10, and a Serbian army approaches. Like all AI, they immediately start focusing on the villagers. Caserns don’t shoot unless upgraded, unless you’re Greek (for some unknown reason caserns do shoot early for them). But this means trouble for Bulgaria, it has no clue that he should attack with the vils. During this attack, Bulgaria went age III. That’s early. Minute 12, and Serbia is III too. The TC fire killed off the remaining Serbian troops. It does look like that Bulgaria has shipped the Advanced Trade Post. As the AI loves sieging them, this will give Bulgaria some ways to deal damage I guess? Minute 18, and a large Stradiot army starts killing strong peasants. However, Bulgaria has found a way to upgrade his caserns. Now he is fighting back! At least, if you consider that fighting. Sometimes, rare sight, you can see strong peasants that actually fight. Pitchforks > maces or swords. At minute 20, the Serbian army is nearly killed, but the Bulgarian base looks very empty. Serbia has also placed a fort. Minute 21, Bulgaria can’t catch a break, Serbia re-attacks with a small army that does have Mameluks. That army got soon reinforced with stradiots. They are doing a lot of damage. But just when Bulgaria needed it the most, it finally decided to ship the 6 Poborniks and they dealt with the invaders. They also get their own Mameluk shipment, and they’ve also send the 3 Spasitel. Together, they start sieging down a TP. Uhmm, priorities? A Serbian army just arrived at the Bulgarian base, and the TP-siegers get retasked to defeat that army. A shipment of Buccaneers saves Bulgaria from the Serbian cavalry, and they restart seiging the TP. Instead of going safe, Bulgaria sends them further to a suicide attack against the Serbian fort. But what’s this: at the 30 minute mark, Bulgaria is IV! And they have the infinite military cards of that age! And they can now train troops! Go Bulgaria!!! However, a large Serbian force arrives, and defeats the few troops Bulgaria had. Bulgaria, who has its own fort (badly placed), does keep some forces here. You’re getting invaded, comrade. During this invasion, the Serbians had also a raiding force that started attacking a lot of Bulgarian vils. After almost 4 minutes, Bulgaria decides to use the few Poborniks of the fort to defend its base. A bit late, but it helped. But Bulgaria is still getting raided though. Those forces reached the Bulgarian base, where the caserns and TC start killing them off. Minute 40, and Serbia is finally age IV. Bulgaria, who had found the courage to send some spasitel shipments and the two Schneiders, goes on the offensive and demolishes the Serbian fort! With only 15 minutes to go, it’s still looking difficult for Bulgaria. Both civs have low score, but both civs have also had not big success when attacking each other. Fun fact: Bulgaria had the idea of raiding the Serbian wood choppers with a Schneider Gun. The Bulgarian army’s dreams of winning got smashed when they encountered the troops at the Serbian base. Let’s fast-forward: the Serbians performed a few more attacks on the Bulgarians, and Bulgaria managed to send enough spasitel to deal with them. At some point, the Bulgarian AI preferred to keep them at the beach (like 10 of them) while he was getting attacked. In the end, a points victory for…
Serbia: 541 (extremely low!!) Bulgaria: 333
Serbia gets a win they don’t deserve, even if they tried their best to be aggressive.
EDIT: AI BUG: I highly doubt that Bulgaria trains armies when IV

Summary: Mexico, Romania and Serbia win.
That's... +3 for me. David, you only got +1.
AI game on patch 1.0.11b (and onwards): viewtopic.php?f=4&t=1981
Swiss UA proposal (obsolete?): viewtopic.php?f=8&t=768&p=6612#p6612
 
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Re: AI game (or at least a try)

Fri May 10, 2019 12:10 pm

Yeah, the results are against me, and the computer just wont play normally. Alright! Next batch predictions, and hopefully I will get a clean win this time.

Australia vs Germany-----Germany------My opinion but Australians are kinda soggy right now.
China vs Ethiopia-------Ethiopia--------Chinese units are weak while Ethiopia has solid troops and was intended for hard-on defense.
Malta vs Netherlands------Netherlands-----This prediction is just for the sake of diversity (malta has upper hand), but I am hoping the Dutch will use there Banks to their favor.
Russia vs Chile-------Russia------I am not familiar with Chile but that Russian Winter...Will be Annoying in the least if everything goes gold for Chile.

Alright, Hoping for some clean points this round.
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Re: AI game (or at least a try)

Fri May 10, 2019 1:30 pm

@David: I've done a calculation of the points. I should have 17 points now, and you 7. But you didn't make predictions on 6 games, so I'm giving you a third of everything. Which means: 2 games you guessed correctly (+4), +2 games guessed correctly but were points victories (+2) and 2 wrong. That means you have now a total of 13 points. I think this a fair, but if you want I can also restart the count from the moment you started listing your predictions.

Anyway, I rushed some more results:
Australia VS Germany
The Australian AI has one advantage over the other Anglo AI’s: they start with the least amount of botanists. That AI, who was a few patches ago fearsome when it survived the early game, has become worse, so I don’t think this will last long. Germany is already age III after only 7:47 minutes. That’s crazy fast. At minute 12, Germany has made an army and attacks the Australians, who lost their troops while treasure hunting. A shipment and two towers save them from total destruction. The Australian AI went III at minute 13.A new army arrives, and clashes with the few Australian troops. Australia, without economy and with few towers, needed a long time to kill that army. 23 minutes, and Germany is IV. It doesn’t seem like that they have built their Krupp Factory. They should produce that building asap to get those free soldiers! Germany attacks the helpless Australians again, but the towers defeated the army. Minute 27, Germany invades again, and goes V two minutes later, but that was not really needed as the Australians got defeated. Very poor showing of Australia. Well, they are probably the worst AI now. Their villager high was about 27. Explains enough.
 
China VS Ethiopia
China was in the previous patch one of the best AI’s, probably the second best right after the Inca’s. But Ethiopia has recently become a very spamming AI. Both civs go II at about the same time. China used the troops from two shipments (the cavalry and the flame cart shipments) to use for treasure hunting. And here, the Chinese AI failed completely: nearly all these troops, including the artillery, got defeated by the treasure guardians because the AI thinks that performing a weak attack and then run away (while remaining within the treasure range) is a good idea. What did China lose here? At least 3 chokunu (from age up), 7 nien riders and at least 1 flaming cart. Before minute 10. GJ and GG. Ethiopia soon attacks with a huge army, goes IV at minute 15, sends even more troops  and retreats. For some reason. At minute 19, they attack again with a huge army, and retreat again after damaging some buildings. At minute 25, China has a second TC, and Ethiopia goes V. Two minutes later, Ethiopia attacks with a gigantic army, and China gives up soon after the invasion.
 
Malta VS the Netherlands
In vanilla, the Dutch are known to spam a lot of artillery. However, since it is disabled for the AI to produce artillery, they will have to produce something else. Probably halberdiers. Both civs go III at minute 10, at the same time. While the Dutch siege a TP, the Maltese attack the Dutch base. Problem is, the Dutch have many upgraded towers and the Maltese troops have very bad siege, so that went nowhere. The Maltese only managed to kill the fort wagon, and with that also managed to get their own fort up. Minute 13, another Maltese attack, but it does little. Minute 16, another small Maltese attack that… does nothing. The Maltese are really wasteful. The reinforcements of that last army did go near the TC, so the Dutch were suffering quite some villager casualties because of that. Minute 21, a new Maltese attack, but this time the Dutch have an army. Both civs go IV at the same time at minute 22. Minute 24, and another Maltese attack. They are really going crazy with all those attacks. It made it barely past the Dutch army, and only killed a few vils after that. Minute 25, a new Maltese army arrives. They attack like every 3 minutes O_o . But that army was too small and got defeated. The larger force arrived a bit later though, but had trouble with with the Dutch troops. The Dutch have a large amount of Hussars and Halberdiers, while the Maltese AI mixes its armies with longbowmen, Hoop Throwers and Longswordsmen. Minute 32, and disaster strikes for the Maltese: they’ve started sending trebs. The AI, probably due to a bug with the unit that hasn’t been fixed yet, is unable to move them. That’s now 4x3pop that’s wasted to defend their TC. Minute 33, a new day starts where Malta throws troops at the Dutch. Meanwhile, the Dutch are sieging down the Maltese fort and forward base. That is risky, as the Maltese are fighting near the Dutch factory, so they might lose that! But the first military success is achieved for the Dutch: they’ve destroyed the Maltese fort! They are making a come-back! Not only that, but their factory even survived! From now on, the two fought several battles across the map for about 6 minutes. At minute 42, I see that the Maltese TC is even more surrounded by trebs, and two minutes later they go V. You know what that means: they can start resending the treb cards! They probably already have like 30 pop just standing there, and it is about to double. Even with that handicap, the Maltese tried to perform a fruitless attack on the Dutch. The Dutch have a very large army of Halberdiers. Scary. At this point, 50 minutes ingame, the Maltese stil use unupgraded arbalests, longbowmen and knights. They do upgrade the Footmen, but slowly. They prefer to upgrade the Hoop Throwers and Longswordsmen. That’s one of the reasons why all their attacks have been so bad: the troops die way too quickly and are too weak because they aren’t upgraded. A large Maltese army was sieging a far-away TP, while the Dutch perform their first real attack on the Maltese base. The Maltese do the exact same thing back, but were this time very successful! The Dutch attack did kill quite some vils, but the trebs have put a tremendous defense. Last minutes, and the Maltese clash with a huge Dutch army and started attacking the Dutch again.
Malta: 1549  Dutch: 783
A good game from both, but Malta risked losing because they just don’t upgrade crucial troops, and because they send trebs.
 
Russia VS Chile
Chile was in previous patches the definition of spamming artillery, and somehow they performed very well with that. But how will they do now? At 9:41, Russia sieges a TP near the Chilean base, while Chile has a small force that is going for the Russian base. While they manage to kill villagers, Russia is also doing the same. Chile is very effective though, as Russia is refusing to retreat most of its villagers. At minute 11, both armies are still alive, and Russia goes III. The Ryadovoys from the age up saved their base. The other forces of Russia find some more Chilean vils, and attack them. But soon the Chileans went III, and the few troops from that age up managed to get killed. Chile eventually made some infantry, and also shipped a few Zuavo Baiano. The Chileans attack the Russian fort at minute 16, but fail to destroy it. Minute 22, Russia goes IV. They perform an attack with grenadiers and falconets, and keep sending more troops to the Chileans. After 27 minutes, the TC got destroyed and Russia wins after almost 28 minutes. Chile lost because for some reason they stopped producing vils after 14:00.

Summary: Germany, Ethiopia, Malta and Russia go the the next round.
Pointswise, I earned +5, and David +6.
AI game on patch 1.0.11b (and onwards): viewtopic.php?f=4&t=1981
Swiss UA proposal (obsolete?): viewtopic.php?f=8&t=768&p=6612#p6612
 
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Re: AI game (or at least a try)

Fri May 10, 2019 1:38 pm

The "second chance tournament", that will give a second chance to get into the (semi-)finals to civs who lost now, will take place later as I hope that some behavior will get patched out. We don't want Australia or Bulgaria to perform again so miserable, don't we? I've already recorded the second round, but I may lack time to write a lot the coming days. Anyway, these will be the match-ups in the second round (+ my predictions):
Map: Tuscany
1. Portugal VS Argentina     --- Portugal
2. Belgium VS Mexico         --- Mexico
3. Serbia VS Italy                 --- Italy
4. Japan VS Austria             --- Japan
5. Ethiopia VS England        --- Ethiopia
6. Aztecs VS Romania         --- Aztecs
7. Paraguay VS Russia        --- Paraguay
8. Korea VS Inca                  --- Inca
9. Tupi VS Germany             --- Germany
10. Malta VS Colombia         --- Malta
AI game on patch 1.0.11b (and onwards): viewtopic.php?f=4&t=1981
Swiss UA proposal (obsolete?): viewtopic.php?f=8&t=768&p=6612#p6612
 
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Re: AI game (or at least a try)

Fri May 10, 2019 2:05 pm

1- Thanks for the bonus points! But its ok, lets continue going with this score. I believe I have 19 points now!

But yeah, what a ride! Some of the most frustrating and best matches I have read. Really fun to bet and will gladly continue with this tournament.

Alright! Lets do this......

Portugal vs Argentina--------Portugal----Good Boomers, and argentinians have very weak workers.
Belgium vs Mexico---------Belgium-------Though mexico is defensive civ, I still believe the Belgium elephants will be able to cause a lot of havoc.
Serbia vs Italy---------------Italy-------------I honestly am not sure, but both are rushy type of civs. I will go with Italy because of their faster build rate, which will be perfect if they will start a military base operation right next to there fort.

Welp........Happy 2nd ladder tournament and may the odds be in your favor...
                                                                               -David
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Re: AI game (or at least a try)

Fri May 17, 2019 9:52 pm

Alright.............Since I am late, no reason at all............Just bets.
Portugal vs Argentina-------------Portugal
Belgium vs Mexico-----------------Belgium
Serbia vs Italy-----------------------Italy
Japan vs Austria--------------------Japan
Ethiopia vs England----------------Ethiopia
Aztecs vs Romanians--------------Aztec
Paraguay vs Russia----------------Russia
Korea vs Inca-------Kinda Tied but-----Korea
Tupi vs Germany-------------------Germany
Malta vs Columbia-----------------Malta

Again, due to me being kinda late to the party, these are my predictions without explanation

Sorry for the delay Ossus.
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"Once you go Zulu you never go back."

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