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DavidIbragimov
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Re: AI game (or at least a try)

Fri May 03, 2019 1:50 pm

Ok will do one more because can relate to both of the following very close.

ZULU VS AZTEC---------------Bet on Zulu.....Here's why....

POSITIVES
-Faster unit spawning
- Have Access to cannons and Cavalry
-Early war Civ
- Can transform Impi to Ishkulu

NEGATIVES...
-Can only create units next to home base or matriarchs.
-Micromanagement
-Can turn stale when Aztecs start buffing

AZTECS Positive V. Negative

P
-Solid Attack
-Good at Overwhelming
-Very Versatile in combat
- Fire pit is insane (or in classical at least)
- Immortal Chief

N.
-Infantry Only
- Not as advanced in tech, and rely on the numbers, the chief, and the beginning game raw attack.
- Really hard to defeat cannons if behind walls (not revelant but still a fact)

In conclusion, I really enjoy playing with both, but I believe that if the game reaches long enough, and the zulu will have access to Mountain Cannons and the Ishkulu, its game over for the Aztecs
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Re: AI game (or at least a try)

Fri May 03, 2019 2:37 pm

Pls make a coherent list. The way you're posting predictions is very difficult to get an overview of.
Also, don't talk about how you like to play the civs. This is purely about the AI.
AI game on patch 1.0.11b (and onwards): viewtopic.php?f=4&t=1981
Swiss UA proposal (obsolete?): viewtopic.php?f=8&t=768&p=6612#p6612
 
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Re: AI game (or at least a try)

Fri May 03, 2019 2:52 pm

Right. Sorry.     :like:
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Re: AI game (or at least a try)

Sun May 05, 2019 8:30 am

Austria VS Ottomans
Ottomans started very strong, aging up early and having 4 towers in their base after 5 minutes. They performed some small raids on the Austrian villagers. They were also the first to place a fort. The AI prefers to place forts in between themselves and the enemy, and usually those spots are very close to each other. Austria tried to put a fort next to the Ottoman one, but obviously that plan failed, as they lost their fort wagon that way. The Ottomans however faced multiple attacks on their fort, one dealing great damage. It didn’t seem like that the Ottomans were building a lot of troops. That opened the path for the very diversified Habsburg army to attack them. The Austrian AI did take quite a lot of time to destroy the Ottoman TC (the victory goal). It seems that the AI has the following priorities: 1) units, including ships 2) Towers, sometimes with barracks 3) all other buildings. The Ottomans had a lot of towers, and a few ships, so yeah, it took a long time but the Habsburgs eventually won. Strangely, the Habsburgs were the only AI to have attacked me thus far (I cannot delete my carthographer). During the whole game, the Ottomans had built only 50 more units than the Habsburgs. Problem is, they could keep up with villager production, but not with collected resources.
 
Aztecs VS Zulu
After 2 minutes and 30 seconds, the Zulu were already age 2. Oh boi. Unfortunately, they use their early Impis for gathering treasures instead of raiding. And the AI is bad at attacking strong treasures… Before minute 8, they also failed attacking the Aztec (they ran too deep into the base, getting shot by the war hunt in the process). At minute 11, they Zulu were getting attacked while their army was attacking a far-away trade post. That army eventually reached the Aztec town, but in that time the Aztecs had built enough troops to defend themselves against that. In the meantime, the invading Aztec army had still not been defeated! There were even reinforcements coming! Somehow, with the help of shipments, the Zulu defeated those armies, but the damage had been dealt: The Aztec attacked again with a big army, which defeated … Wait, are those ishikulu? Oh yes they are. OMG they defeated that large army with so few units? Fortunately for the Aztecs, they had another army that followed soon after. That one got shredded too. A third, large army was needed to defeat those Ishikulu, and like that they did defeat the Zulu (actually, that army retreated several times for no reason, stalling the inevitable for a long time). If only the Zulu AI knew how to aggressively make Ishikulu, they could’ve won. The biggest problem of this duel was that the Zulu AI never went over 28 villagers. They did reach age IV with that strangely enough.

Colombia VS India
First notable action were the Colombians attacking with artillery before 10 minutes. That attacking force wasn’t completely defeated when reinforcements arrived. The Colombian eventually got defeated by tower fire and ships. On Borneo, it’s not difficult to avoid ship fire, so yeah. Do note the priorities of the Indian AI too: ships > troops. They may’ve been shipments, I haven’t checked. Minute 22, Colombians are age IV while the Indians are still II, and they have seemingly no villagers. On top of that, the Colombians are attacking again. Minute 23, India is defeated. That was easy for the Colombian AI. Notice how now all the winners have been in the second player slot (I’m the first slot). Does that have an influence? I checked for some hidden handicaps, but all of them were on 0%.

Sioux VS Inca
First action is when Sioux cavalrymen storm the Inca base at minute 10. But we all know which unit the Inca usually make… So yeah, that attack went nowhere. The Inca, already age 3, responded with a counter-attack, and even brought artillery with them (even if it is the weak bufecago). The madman Red Bull, euh, Red Cloud, counter-attacked that counter-attack, and caused surprisingly a lot of damage, taking down both Ushnu. But a combination of Inca mortars and Tambo’s defeated the few forces that were remaining. Red Cloud attacked again! He is age 3, Tupac is age 4. This is very surprising, no one would’ve guessed that Red Cloud (a cav civ) would dominate the Huaminca-spamming Incas, who were absolutely unbeatable in the previous patch. Someone they are now a lot calmer, both on huamincas as other units. The Sioux, in the process of killing of many vils and Tambos, got surprised by an Independista shipment that absolutely wrecked them. Instead of rebuilding, Tupac decided to attack the less advanced Sioux. That attack devastated the small Sioux base, they don’t have houses nor many other buildings. More reinforcements came, but Red Cloud, having lost many vils, decided to give up. “I do not know how.” Were his last words. I also don’t know why he didn’t win. Oh hey, finally not a second slot winner! Overall, a very strong performance of the Sioux, and a surprisingly bad performance of the Inca. They were so much more dominating in the previous patch. And in the coming patch they will get some nerfs, so I don’t think they will win this tournament.

Paraguay VS Haiti
Haiti, as a civ, is broken. Fortunately, this map isn’t too large, so the AI won’t benefit too much from that. This game will be interesting, as killing of vils seemed in the past games to be the decisive move. But against Haiti that won’t work!
The Haitians were the first to perform an attack, killing the Mestre! That could be huge, as the Paraguayans have not even all barracks or stables up! This happened at minute 9. Around this time, humans would already have at least 4 of those 6 buildings. The AI had only one barrack and one stable. The Paraguayans didn’t suffer a lot of casualties, and easily rescued the Mestre. At minute 12, the Paraguayans have performed a small attack on some vils, but more importantly, they also put a fort close to the Haitians. Over the course of many minutes, Paraguay went V (Haiti still III), Haiti performed several attacks with almost exclusively Caco armies and Haiti “lost” quite some vils. But Paraguay was not making moves to invade the Haitians. 15 minutes later than Paraguay, and with 15 minutes to go, Haiti became IV. Very frustrating to see that the Paraguayan AI had not: build all barracks (bad, but linero aren’t exactly that pop efficient), no build all stables (aca’s are good you know?) but even worse, they even hadn’t built the Ironworks! The reason why Paraguay had not attacked for like 20 minutes while they could just overrun the enemy, was because somehow that AI was grouping its troops in the middle of the map, for nothing. At minute 50, Haiti even managed to destroy that pesky fort. This game is coming a lot closer to a points victory… But Haiti has only 600 points, while Paraguay has 1350! But since Haiti is already pulling miracles, and has been the active player, maybe they can kill enough to win? The answer, after a lot of Zlingit spamming:
Paraguay 1453 VS Haiti 1165. The game goes, very undeserved, to Paraguay. I’m sure that if I’ve let the game run till a real end, that Haiti would’ve won. They were catching up real quickly, and were pushing very well. PS @Fenriz: those Zlinglits have very nice capes.

Summary of the winners in this post: Austria, Aztecs, Colombia, Inca and Paraguay
EDIT: I forgot to mention that this time all my predictions were correct! Oof. That's +9 for me.
AI game on patch 1.0.11b (and onwards): viewtopic.php?f=4&t=1981
Swiss UA proposal (obsolete?): viewtopic.php?f=8&t=768&p=6612#p6612
 
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Re: AI game (or at least a try)

Sun May 05, 2019 8:11 pm

I really enjoy reading this. Its very interesting. Keep up the good work!
 
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Re: AI game (or at least a try)

Mon May 06, 2019 9:18 am

See! Zulu would've won, but dang some AI have a weird way of playing.........

Wasn't expecting the columbians to win......From my experience with India AI, they spam there camel riders and attack early...

Also, 0 points so far..... :'(

don't have enough time to go through full discription but here are my guesses.............

Tupi vs. Canada-------------Canada (usually spam spearman and the tupi building are weak.)
Korea vs. Spain--------------Spain (Korea is a far range and defensive civ, so unless map has water, I don't think they will win.)
Greece vs. Argentina----Pure Guess--------Greece (never played with Arg., but can say most Greek troop have very good damage)
USA vs. Italy----------Italy (same story as the Canadians, prefer to use spearman, and US kinda has a slow start, unless they train special rifleman, Italy can take early victory)
Brazil vs. Belgium--------Belgium (All troops are good, those police elephants should do a good job :like:)

Again, sorry for caveman processing, but I need to go............Hope to see results soon ( :faith:and win some points :faith:)
                                                                                                   -David
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Re: AI game (or at least a try)

Mon May 06, 2019 1:27 pm

Thanks for the interest and support. I will upload more results tomorrow.
AI game on patch 1.0.11b (and onwards): viewtopic.php?f=4&t=1981
Swiss UA proposal (obsolete?): viewtopic.php?f=8&t=768&p=6612#p6612
 
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Re: AI game (or at least a try)

Mon May 06, 2019 1:50 pm

Alright, will be waiting.
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Re: AI game (or at least a try)

Tue May 07, 2019 6:01 pm

More results! It will probably take several days to post the next ones. And like always: I haven't reread a thing. Many grammatical errors may be present.

Tupi VS Canada
The Tupi civ. This civ has a major problem: it doesn’t know that the two villager types have different roles, which hurts its economy as the AI tries to hunt with gatherers. Canada actually also has the same issue: usually the fur traders are supervising that everyone mines well, or they are looking at trees. Other AI BUG: Tupi don’t build longhouses. That should be their number 1 housing building. Minute 11, and the Tupi siege down a trade post. The Canadians send some troops to deal with this force, but those get defeated by the swarm of Voluntarios. Those are however too frail to withstand the tower fire, so the attack didn’t cause a lot of damage. Minute 13, both players are age III. A minute later, and the Tupi attack again, mainly with Mahouts of the Sufi native site. Those managed to kill several villagers. The Canadians believe that they can still win, and place the fort “Fort Confidence” near the Tupi base. But that base got detected by an attacking force, and that force destroyed the fort during its building phase. Somehow, IDK why, are forts very quickly destroyed when you siege them during the building phase. The Tupi force, mainly with Pomberos, went to the Canadian base and started sieging there. BUG spotted: Tupi fishing boats can gather coin from whales. The Tupi continued sending troops, and eventually defeated the Canadians after 25 minutes. Poor game of the Canadians, but that didn’t surprise me, they’ve always been one of the weaker AI’s, although I remember them being a little better back when they did produce artillery. I wonder how the Tupi will fare next game, as they relied this game heavily on shipped units and natives.
 
Korea VS Spain
Korea, a new civ. No idea how they will do. But Spain has a good AI, not the best, but I am still confident that they will win. More so since: AI BUG: Korea only trains cavalry. And that VS Tercios isn’t the best idea. Other AI BUG: Korea started with two priests. Probably leftover code from the personalities?
8 minutes in, and the Spanish attack the very lightly defended Korean base, killing a few vils. Korea had also at least 4 vils who were praying. I know that religion is good, but only from age III onwards you can unlock interesting techs. In age II there is just so little to research. Minute 11, and Korea goes III while Isabella decides to perform another attack (and ages up soon after). Again, the Korean base lacks troops, and villagers get killed. Spain dominates this easy game. Just when Korea defeated those troops, another wave of Spanish arrives, and they start killing vils yet again. Fortunately for Korea, a shipment saves them again, but now there is a fort very close to their base. And they are building a paddy at the front of their own base. Smart. Prepare for even more villager massacres. The Koreans finally made a small force, and started their first attack on that fort. With the help from some black panthers, they did a little bit of damage against the fort. 20 minutes, and Korea goes IV, and performs another attack against the fort. And they manage to destroy it! Meanwhile, Spain is suffering from the same issue Paraguay had: somehow they were gathering troops in the middle of the map for nothing. After having killed that fort, the Korean cavalrymen started attacking those troops, and defeated them. In the process, Korea prepared another cavalry force, and those two armies started the first invasion of the Spanish base (we’re 24 minutes ingame). A minute later, and Korea goes V! Now Alistair, did you think that would happen? I doubt that. ;-)   A third force arrives at the Spanish base. But, like all AI, they preferred suiciding themselves at the Spanish navy. A fourth force arrives, and finally kills of the Spanish TC. Spain got, very surprisingly, defeated by the cav-spamming Koreans in 36 minutes.
 
Greece VS Argentina
I chose Borneo for multiple reasons, it is one of the best maps IMO, but I also chose this map because this gives good fishing opportunities for the Greeks. Not that I am very biased, I just wanted to be fair for the Balkan AI who doesn’t know how to use crops. Next map is going to be a land map for sure.
Argentina starts with one of the earliest attacks of this tournament: 14 troops attack before minute 8! Fortunately, the Greeks had a substantial force that was treasure hunting, and these defeated them, but Greece did lose some vils. Greece also has one dock up. Probably two docks are better for them, but at least they are taking advantage of their UA. At minute 10, Greece decides to attack the Argentinians back. Minute 14, and both civs are III, and they ar both attacking each other. But Greece isn’t as successful, as they do some damage versus some buildings while the Argentineans kill of villagers again. Both civs decided to place a fort at the exact same spot. The Argentinean wagon arrived a bit earlier, but more importantly, the Argentinean fort has less HP, so needs less construction time, which means it will attack a lot sooner! To make things worse, the Greek foundations disappeared and the star fort wagon got destroyed by the fort. Minute 20, and a rather large battle happens near the Argentinean fort. The Greeks got defeated, and did practically no damage to the fort. After this success, the Argentineans invade the Greeks again. That force gets defeated, and the Greeks counterattack the Argentineans. Even if a few gauchos were on the plantation there, there were also two towers, and these quickly dealt with those troops. In the meantime, the Argentineans had a force that just entered the Greek town. Unlike the Greek attackers, they did do a lot of damage. Maybe those Caserns are very bad at defending, IDK, but the Argentineans are sure a lot more destructive. Minute 32, both civs are IV, and the Greeks defeated the fort. But the Argentineans also have a large force on the map that is marching towards the Greek town. Both forces eventually get defeated, but the Argentineans again did do a lot more damage. This time they did leave some ruins, which is really a much needed help for the Greeks. Minute 39, and more Argentineans invade the Greeks. IDK if the Greeks have any villagers at all anymore. This is looking very bad. After few minor attacks form both belligerents, Greece performs a larger attack at minute 49, and almost destroys a second TC. Another army soon follows, but it gets intercepted. Minute 54, and now the Greeks are defending again. Those Bacamarteers are sure scary. A big portion of the Greek town got destroyed. Minute 59, and a new force comes. That’s a bit late though, so it comes down, again, to a points victory.
Argentina: 564   Greece: 282
Argentina wins, but those are very low scores. Both civs were even still IV after an hour! Still a rather decisive victory of Argentina, but they did perform weakly. This civ isn’t going to last long in the tournament for sure.
 
The States VS Italy
And the game starts with an AI BUG: Italy has a starting TC wagon. Again leftover code from those personalities I guess. The States has a Botanist, who is observing the wonderful plants of Borneo. His initial plan was to hunt for furs, but the abundant flora had changed his life. Both players go II before 5 minutes. The States have three well placed towers at the front of their base, protecting the barracks. The AI is actually rather good with tower placement: they place them close enough to each other, so that several towers can shoot at invaders. During the whole AI tournament, towers have caused a lot of casualties, and when I play VS the AI, destroying very early is difficult because they have to many. After 10 minutes, the Italians go III, immediately making use of their free TC wagon. A bit later, the Americans follow them, both start a battle near an Italian TP. The Americans lost that battle. It is unfortunate for them that they paid to ship Sharktooth bowmen, who will not provide much benefit. A real waste of coin, if you ask me. Since the Italians had defeated those enemy forces, they could safely place a fort near them, while also attacking them. But then… AI BUG discovered: Italy tried constructing docks with merchants. Minute 15, Victor Emmanuel sends a discovery force to scout a native village. They seem to call themselves “USA”, and they appear to be hostile. Maybe a stronger force would learn them a lesson? Meanwhile, the Americans have send a small force to damage the fort. IDK if it’s a bug, but the Americans have a lot of flags in their base because the TC isn’t the only building with two flags. It looks funny and realistic. Minute 21, the Italians are raiding the Americans. And somehow they think that even if those raiders are already defeated, sending 5 more halberdier would be a good idea. Hint: it isn’t. But the Italians just continue to harass the American villagers with halberdiers, chasing them across the map. Somehow the States is really suffering, as they have nearly no troops the whole time. With two TC it shouldn’t be difficult to replace those villagers? At minute 31, a large Italian attack happens, and eventually the States gives up. Very poor showing of them. I don’t remember that they were that bad when I played against them lately.
 
Brazil VS Belgium
Bug bug bug bug. My favorite Pokémon type. But in this case, I don’t like it that much. The Belgians start with a spare TC wagon. Belgium also starts with frontier wagons, but the AI doesn’t know how to use them, so the TC wagon may balance that a bit out. After only 7,66 minutes, the Brazilians start the first attack! It’s only a few pikemen and some musketeers. Unfortunately, the Brazilians didn’t use them well: as there were no units or towers nearby, they started sieging a stable. Before that got destroyed, Belgium produced some units and killed them off. Two minutes later, Brazil comes back with an army of about 20 musketeer, but they couldn’t defeat the defending troops. Brazil has been very aggressive thus far! Minute 11, and Belgium went III, and immediately uses the TC wagon to setup the Town Center at the front of their base. A minute later, and the fort wagon is shipped, and as usual, the fort gets placed near the enemy. I can tell from previous patches that those forward bases made the AI a lot more aggressive towards the player they settled near. Belgium has an impressive escort. Good! Many forts got cancelled because the wagons weren’t protected. Brazil, who is still age II, has assembled a new army to attack, and it includes the native men-at-arms from the Crusaders site (the only map with them has been disabled, so you cannot encounter them). I must say, those men-at-arms are very strong, with over 200 HP and splash damage; they are definitely one of the better natives to ship. That small army encounters a larger Belgian army, and gets defeated. Now, Belgian takes the opportunity to launch his first attack against the Brazilian base (15 minutes in) and manages to kill a few vils. Two minutes later, and Brazil is finally III. Even if the small Brazilian armies have so far not been dangerous, Brazil sends again a small force, that even has not upgraded units. Obviously it didn’t do a thing. Belgium seems to  have trained the Huai mercenary. For those who don’t know: that is a very strong unit. It is grosso modo 2x a musketeer, but with more of everything except pop. Minute 20, Belgium went IV. Brazil is really having technological problems. Belgium starts a new attack on the Brazilian base. First major victory is the destruction of Brazil’s second TC. That army largely got defeated by towers and the fort, but a new wave arrived soon after, and it has many police elephants! Minute 30, Belgium is V. Note that if an enemy TC produces a villager, the AI will immediately stop the sieging and kill it. The AI however soon discovered that the Brazilian base is not completely void of units: ships exist! And thus the elephants start meleeing them, which is of course a good idea since ships have no melee armor. Pro tip: the opponent must be very bad if you can melee damage a ship. Pedro, I just called you bad, yes. (note: the elephant siege attack looks like a melee attack ;-) That one ship wasn’t alone, and together with the fort and towers, the very expensive elephant army of the Belgians got defeated. Then, once again: AI BUG. Belgian decided to move an army to some coast near the Brazilians, and it just stands there. A building was nearby, so the units tried autoattacking it, but the AI constantly retasked them again towards the shores. No, you have to sunbathe! A new force attacks the town in the meantime, but after little time, it goes back to their own base. The troops at the shore, after destroying the building that was in range, decide to make some fire in the Brazilian base to dry their clothes, but the fort and the ships prove again to be nasty. But the terrified Pedro resigns before that plan got anywhere. Why did Pedro lose? Answer: villager count. When Belgian decided to attack, he never managed to get his economy  rolling, and it went to the point of almost complete stagnation for almost 10 minutes. In other words: Belgium failed at defeating a broke man. Oh hey, my home country is a step closer to winning the tournament!

Summary of the victors: Tupi, Korea, Argentina, Italy and Belgium
So that's ... +3 for me. Oh god.
@David's points: +4. Like me, only two guesses were right, but one of my guesses was a points victory.
AI game on patch 1.0.11b (and onwards): viewtopic.php?f=4&t=1981
Swiss UA proposal (obsolete?): viewtopic.php?f=8&t=768&p=6612#p6612
 
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Re: AI game (or at least a try)

Tue May 07, 2019 7:38 pm

Yassssss!
Finally some sweet points. 

-Yeah I noticed some of those bugs happening too. When they just stand in the middle of the map (hopefully this gets fixed soon). 

-I am surprised with Canadians losing, because in my games, they will spawn in a crap ton of Spontooners, which is cheap but effective against cavalry and buildings. Oh well, AI Supremacy strikes again!

I guess it's time for the next batch of predictions..........again, short but my opinion on who will win.....

Mexico vs Iroquis-----------Iroquis------Never tried Mexico, but since Iroquis is a classical civ, I don't think they should have as much bugs
Egypt vs Romania----------Egypt--------By far Egypt, Romania is in a phase where it can't even function properly(at least for me) so obvious bet.
Serbia vs Bulgaria---------Serbia--------Bulgaria is strong, but they will be overcome for 2 ages if they don't hurry to the Industrial age. And I doubt the computer will know what to do with the infinite cards.
Australia vs Germany-----Germany-----I feel like Australia isn't the most solidly reliable civ at the moment, while Germany is already planted in might.

P.S. Really love what you are doing but sadly this event is coming to an end. I propose we continue this off in a ladder tournament to see what is most powerful computer controlled civ at the moment!
                             Hope to see results soon, David
"Once you go Zulu you never go back."

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