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  • Welcome to The Town Hall! This forum is for news and discussion about anything related to WoL. You can ask any WoL-related questions here.
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PepePeyote
Topic Author
Master Engineer
Master Engineer
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Joined: Sun Oct 15, 2017 5:38 am

Towards a more balanced WoL

Fri Feb 01, 2019 2:13 am

We all love this mod and deeply enjoy it, however that doesn't change the fact many of us are upset about the ridiculous unbalance some civs/units have. It is well known this mod never aimed to be as balanced as an ESOC patch/mod for instance; in essence, WoL is and will always be much different than the original AoE 3 and the community wishes that it remains as such.

But that doesn't change the fact that extreme OPness can and does ruin many games, especially on ESO where many people tend to take ranked games seriously(lol).

Strategies like Peru's age 2 Blackbelt japanese immigrant spam are flawless, and have been proven to beat any and every single opponent it may face. All it takes is an average skilled player to beat an expert with those units. They come in blocks of 10, have 400 HP which is way more than 95% of Age 2 units and all are basically uncounterable.

Another strategy that is outright OP is to play Haiti on huge maps like Australia or Transcontinental. The sheer amount of damage Haitian units can get in such maps is enough to trigger insta rage quits. It is game breaking that an age 2 Hussar can get over 120 dmg. And once upgraded, that bonus increases and scales as well.

Many other civs have also very powerful units that often break the game, or get insane bonuses that deeply change gameplay and the only way players have to counter such OPness is to play with the same Op civs. It's getting to a point where many civs which you guys put all your effort and creativity into making are not being used. People barely use Tupis, Zulus and other weak civs. There's no incentive to play those civs competitively when there are much stronger alternatives, some of which, again, are literally flawless.

I believe many people are getting tired of that. We are getting tired of 2k HP 1k dmg units. We are tired of OP damage/Hp/speed auras. We are tired of  a bunch japanese martial artists that destroy whole regiments of musketeers and saber-armed cavalry.

We know some OP units/strategies have been already fixed. I still remember the day when Egypt could easily spam 70 Fellahs and then convert them all to Naffatuns for a insta gg. I also remember the days when the Serbian aura was outrageous, and I was the one who made very critic statements regarding it, until it was eventually fixed.

We know each patch you guys release comes with many new fixes and balances, but they also come with many new ways to abuse gameplay. It seems that there is not enough testers, or simply you guys believe it's ok to release such units without even trying them many times in the first place.

This should be painful not only for us players but also for you guys as developers. The time and work spent on creating something goes completely wasted once people realize there's no point as playing or using x unit when there are much better alternatives. Why should I use Belgian elephants (500 wood 500 food 6? pop) as anti-inf cav when I can instead make Spanish batidores (2k ish HP 3-4 pop)?

And there are many other examples like that. The point is, we love the diversity of nations and units in this mod, but many of us agree that it's getting out of control. 1-2k OP stats units are not fun to either play as or against. Sometimes it looks like some bonuses weren't even tested at all. Who thought giving Peru access to Immigrant units in Age 2 was 'fine' in the first place?

Some units aren't even affected by their counters lol. Take for instance the Australian Bushranger. That unit outperforms skirmishers which are their main counter. That is simply not right. A musk with ranged resistance that can easily beat skirmishers completely defeats it's purpose as an anti-heavy inf unit. The Austrian demicannon are so OP that they can send cavalry flying thorough the air, and can easily beat culverins and any other anti-art with just an average micro. Add to that the Serbian age 5 bonus and you can completely bulldoze the enemy with 7 of them and some Black Riders as mop up units.

I am aware that patches will likely fix most of these issues, but considering how long it takes for a new patch to be released, I think it's time to set some limits to how effective and strong some civs and their strategies can be.

The last thing we as a community want is for this to continue being a trend in WoL. But as always, I urge players and developers alike to post their opinions and thoughts on this.

Would you people like to see units and their bonuses toned down, or do you want muh OP Blackbelts to remain the de facto WoL META?
 
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MarceloCaitano
Fur Trader
Fur Trader
Posts: 20
Joined: Thu Dec 06, 2018 11:35 pm

Re: Towards a more balanced WoL

Fri Feb 01, 2019 2:41 pm

You're right, but you exaggerated a bit. each civilization has its unique mechanics. Haiti without aura is completely useless since its units are weak.
Blackbelt age 2 spam is a unique strategy of Peru is. I like these unique things.
but unfortunately there are some civilizations that are so ridiculously strong and others extremely weak.
Bushranger is simply ridiculous completely updated. But the native police is worse still gets more than 927 of hp and 110 of dmg and costs only 1 pop, it is simply ridiculous.
Da to separates the strong civilizations by the culture, European and Angles so much above the other cultures and this is a fact.
 
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PepePeyote
Topic Author
Master Engineer
Master Engineer
Posts: 48
Joined: Sun Oct 15, 2017 5:38 am

Re: Towards a more balanced WoL

Fri Feb 01, 2019 10:53 pm

Blackbelts definitively need to be toned down lol, more than anything else in fact.

They have twice the HP of any Age 2 cavalry unit (400), they come in blocks of 10 units, cost only 1 pop and together with the Peruvian speed aura bonus and the critical attacks they deal, they can easily overwhelm any enemy unit combination in both numbers and overall efficiency.

Just imagine this: You start a match with Peru and all you have to do is gather 200 wood for the Post Office and 400 gold for the immigrant colony.  You save 3 of your shipments and once you hit Age 2 you send 3 blocks of Blackbelts, meaning you have 30 units, with 400 HP each and with a powerful attack and a really fast speed.
No other civ has something like that, and it's just not right. Sure it's a strategy; a very disgustingly OP strategy.

Comparatively, 10 Blackbelts would be equal to a 15-20 Hussar shipment in terms of HP and effectiveness. In fact, Blackbelts would still be even better since they are not countered by any heavy inf like cav does.
And I never said to remove the strategy altogether lol, but it urgently needs a hard nerf. Either reduce the stats and numbers of the Blackbelts or just don't make them available in Age 2.
 
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Hoop Thrower
Wars of Liberty Team
Wars of Liberty Team
Posts: 1487
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Location: Kingdom of Araucania & Patagonia
Favorite Civilization: Mapuche
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Re: Towards a more balanced WoL

Sat Feb 02, 2019 12:12 am

Did you really need to make such a stupidly long post just to say that Blackbelts are op?
 
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PepePeyote
Topic Author
Master Engineer
Master Engineer
Posts: 48
Joined: Sun Oct 15, 2017 5:38 am

Re: Towards a more balanced WoL

Sat Feb 02, 2019 12:49 am

Nothing says stupid more than a probably untested unit that guarantees victory even in a 1v4 FFA and against Age 3 upgraded units.

Sorry, did I say probably? I meant clearly lol
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HrdsHrdrck
Intern
Intern
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Joined: Sun Jun 25, 2017 7:01 pm
Favorite Civilization: Romanians

Re: Towards a more balanced WoL

Sat Feb 02, 2019 1:14 am

dude, everyone knows that the blackbelts are op.

intead of "towards a more balanced wol", just say inbalance report, or something less magnificen
m sr y m frm stn scrts sn vcls sn nngn rzn prnt
 
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PepePeyote
Topic Author
Master Engineer
Master Engineer
Posts: 48
Joined: Sun Oct 15, 2017 5:38 am

Re: Towards a more balanced WoL

Sat Feb 02, 2019 1:45 am

HrdsHrdrck wrote: dude, everyone knows that the blackbelts are op.

intead of "towards a more balanced wol", just say inbalance report, or something less magnificen
Clearly  not everyone knows.

Besides, did you even read the post? This is not an inbalance report. The fact that I mentioned some of those examples doesn't mean it is.
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MarceloNero
Paisano
Paisano
Posts: 17
Joined: Sun Nov 25, 2018 11:53 am

Re: Towards a more balanced WoL

Sat Feb 02, 2019 2:05 am

he is right ... I think that this problem would be easily solved if the turkey could only construct the consulate in the age 3 ... simple like this.
 
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Hoop Thrower
Wars of Liberty Team
Wars of Liberty Team
Posts: 1487
Joined: Sun Mar 12, 2017 9:17 pm
Location: Kingdom of Araucania & Patagonia
Favorite Civilization: Mapuche
ESO: HoopThrower
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Re: Towards a more balanced WoL

Sat Feb 02, 2019 2:22 am

MarceloNero wrote: he is right ... I think that this problem would be easily solved if the turkey could only construct the consulate in the age 3 ... simple like this.
This is the mother of all hot takes.
 
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Hoop Thrower
Wars of Liberty Team
Wars of Liberty Team
Posts: 1487
Joined: Sun Mar 12, 2017 9:17 pm
Location: Kingdom of Araucania & Patagonia
Favorite Civilization: Mapuche
ESO: HoopThrower
Steam: hoop_thrower
Contact:

Re: Towards a more balanced WoL

Sat Feb 02, 2019 2:24 am

PepePeyote wrote: Nothing says stupid more than a probably untested unit that guarantees victory even in a 1v4 FFA and against Age 3 upgraded units.

Sorry, did I say probably? I meant clearly lol
It's not quite untested, Blackbelts were joke units that had like 80 Hit Points (that's why they come in groups of 10) since WotTA, someone probably changed the stats to 400 (odds are by mistake or as a joke) somewhere after the release of WoL, but it's not like we did it on purpose.

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